Poor signal at certain times of day

[Georgeee1]

Every day at about 5pm onwards my signal drops and calls frequently drop out. Rest of the day 3 bars and calls just about ok, but not always - signal often goes up and down like a yo-yo during the day, too.

Partner on Vodafone, never any probs. I used to be on Vodafone and had no probs, she used to be on O2 and was always complaining. (Our respective employers coincidentally switched their contracts within a few months of each other.)

Today while talking to O2 CS re another complaint I mentioned this and was advised (as I always expected) that it was probably a time of day thing as lots of people get home around now and too much activity/demand for the local mast. But when I pointed out the O2/Vodafone difference, I was also then told that it should make no difference re O2 vs. Vodafone due to mast sharing.

Hmm. I thought it was shared pointy sticky up physical thing, but each company hoisted its own transmitter on said mast - so the 'no difference' line I was being spun would be plain wrong. Or am I wrong - in which case if it IS shared transmitters, does it imply that Vodafone (who apparently manage my local mast) are favouring their clients over O2's, somehow.

And O2 persistently claim there is a good signal here, but if 'signal' is a function of bandwidth demand at certain times of day (and it is never better than 3 bars) how can they get away with claiming it is a 'good' signal in general when at times of increased usage I cannot get more than one bar or even have no service far too often, and calls drop out late afternoon/early evening, even if I can get a service?

Are we supposed to treat this as acceptable? Why can't O2 increase whatever needs increasing (transmitter capacity, backhaul, whatever) on the local mast to cope with something closer to peak demand (and also improve my signal during the day, too)?

If I ever get my own personal mobile, guess who won't be getting my business?

[MI5]

Pull the other one.
My son is dyslexic so I know for a fact it isn't displayed in your text, in addition dyslexia doesn't have any effect on intelligence.

[Anonymous]

here we go, go on bully me and belittle me!!! do your best pal!! problem is you sir are just embarassing your self... and thats why i will sit here and smile 

[jonsie]

Come on guys, this is a friendly community so let's keep it that way.... 

[Anonymous]

im fine @jonsie 

[MI5]

I'm not going to sit here and take insults from anyone jonsie. You know me too well for that mate.
I'll be ignoring any further childish comments now though as I'm bored with it.

[Georgeee1]

When you two have finished demonstrating you both got out of bed the wrong side... the response:

Not actually "sharing" in that scenario and not what the OP is talking about either.

was presumably an attempt to get back to the questions I asked .

What IS actually shared? Is it the physical mast only and each provider has their own transmitter hoisted on it?

And what constitutes 'signal'? Because I do understand that capacity is the issue I am complaining about.

Just being able to talk to a mast ("good signal") is no use if there is no link beyond that! Surely signal must include some function of bandwidth or capacity?  Or do the bars report capacity rather than ability to talk to the mast?

Are all 'masts' (shorthand for transmitter and whatever link beyond that which provides bandwidth) the same, and it is just density of masts in highly populated areas that provides enough capacity? Or can a 'mast' have its bandwidth/capacity increased?

How can O2 claim I have a good signal here when it is never above 3 bars, even in the garden, and often fr less and often not enough to hold a call. To say nothing of "no service" at what are presumably peak times?

I guess O2 will just rely on "you have a good signal - you can talk to the mast" and ignore the real issue - which is that it may be that they need to increase capacity at my local mast.

I feel a letter to Ofcom coming on if what I've laid out above is correct.

And I will switch when I get my own phone. Employer determines my provider at present!

[MI5]

Apologies for drifting off topic.
To try and address some of your questions:
What is shared is the tower that the transmitters are attached to, but under the Cornerstone project, the responsibility for maintaining all transmitters on a particular mast is split, by region between voda and o2.
A signal is the ability for a phone to register on a network and the strength of signal (which determines the number of bars) is measured in dBm.
Regarding bandwidth, or backhaul, you can have a very strong signal but no bandwidth available. In this scenario the phone will still show a good signal, but nothing will happen.
The only time you should normally see a drop in signal strength displayed on the phone is if you moved away from the transmitter (or signal was being blocked) or the power of the transmitter was turned down.
There are many other factors to consider when looking at received level of signal, including, but not limited to, geography, building construction, trees or other high structures, external influences from illegal signal boosters or any other equipment transmitting on the same frequency.

[Georgeee1]

Thanks for the clarification. It implies that my 3 bars is simply an indication of signal strength to the mast and that O2 consider that this, and it going up and down like a yoyo, and disappearing to no service often at around 5-6pm, still constitutes a "good signal", which it patently isn't.

Is 'signal' also subject to 'capacity' constraints? Too many people's phones trying to talk to the mast at the same time causes congestion?  Can't believe that is true or my other broadcast/radio spectrum kit would have signal degradation when too many people switch on TVs/radios etc.  😉

Airwaves are airwaves (or ARE they?)

(I get that onward from transmitter is a bandwith issue just like any other network' connection)

Sigh. Probably all academic. I've complained before but O2 just say "signal is good". 

[MI5]

Other radio and TV signals will only have an effect if on the same frequency, so in general, no, they won't have an influence.
Bear in mind that signal strength and signal quality are 2 completely different things also - you can have full strength and zero quality.
Despite all the modern fancy smartphone tech, radio waves are ancient and no matter what will always be constrained by the laws of physics.

[Georgeee1]

 Twice today I've written replies only to be sent to a login page when I press 'post'. I login and get .... a login screen returned to me, again and again. But top of page says I am logged in. WTF?

And when I get back to the thread all my typing is lost.

This forum software is utterly useless. I use a few forums and rarely have this problem. It should not let me type away when I am not logged in. If it wants me to log in it should give me the chance to save (or should save for me) my typed text. It should not return a login page when I login, unless that includes a message "wrong ID/password" (it wasn't). It should not leave me on a login page when the top of the page says I am logged in. My fingers hurt too much for this ******.

Other radio and TV signals will only have an effect if on the same frequency, so in general, no, they won't have an influence.

I think you might be commenting on TV signals impacting mobile. If so, that is not what I was saying. I was saying that IF any frequency has capacity (as implied - or misinterpreted by me - from an earlier comment) then why don't my TVs and radios glitch when neighbours turn theirs all on. Nonsense, obviously.

Bear in mind that signal strength and signal quality are 2 completely different things also - you can have full strength and zero quality.

How? (Yes, I may have to make Google my friend.)  If strength is analagous to 'volume' what is quality? The key questions, for me, being what is it that is "good" when O2 tells me I have a "good signal".  What is it that is "bad" when it drops out, reduces, or I have 'no service' at 5 pm? What are they measuring? What is it that my phone is measuring/indicating? Quality or strength?

Despite all the modern fancy smartphone tech, radio waves are ancient and no matter what will always be constrained by the laws of physics.

'O' Level physics, 1974. Grade 4 or 5 (can't recall) but I suspect it is not the laws of physics that are preventing O2 from providing a better service here. 😉

But maybe the answers to the signal/strength questions above indicate otherwise.

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