Assistance dragged out until out of 28 day cooling off period - appreciate any advice

[Anonymous]

Hi,

First time on this forum so I hope this in the right section.

I have an HTC One on O2 contract and I'm having problems with it so would appreciate any advice on what my options are or maybe options to deal with it (beyond a call centre manager which is as far as I have got).

I have had the phone just over 2 months now and it has had issues since day one, the latest being the discovery and confirmation that the microphone isn't working properly and hasn't been since day one (it keeps dropping out on voice calls so the receiver can't hear me).

After reporting several different problems to O2 it would appear that the 'support' has been deliberately dragged out until I am now outside of the 28 day cooling off period and I have to accept a repair or a replacement (i.e. Repaired second hand unit) for the remaining 22 months of my contract (unless I buy myself out) which I find preposterous and totally unfair.

I have had to reset, full reset, try the phone in different areas, try different services in different areas and lastly try the same tests with a second new sim card (after receiving it via post) which has all taken me beyond the 28 days.

I mentioned several times that trying these 'tests' was using up time but was told that the initial date was noted and I would be OK.

Other issues have been to do with not being able to get a 3G signal and this was blamed on the sim but that has now been proven incorrect.

Now the microphone issue has been proved definately faulty and in need of repair I am hitting a brick wall with my requests for a replacement handset.

My issue with a repaired phone is that I didn't enter a contract for a 'repaired' one, I entered a contract for a brand new one, in full working order.

If I was happy to accept a repaired one I could have bought one far cheaper without a 2 year contract attached for example.

I have spoken to HTC who have advised me that the unit is faulty and furthermore it's a known fault which O2 are well aware of and they should replace it but O2 simply refuse to. They even denied any knowledge despite me offering to send them a link to their own forum where it is discussed with their own employees.

I am amazed that this is even legal, not to mention being totally unethical.

I understand that my options are very limited now due to the delays but hopefully someone here can help me find a resolution.

What I would like is a new replacement handset, otherwise I'd like the contract cancelled and fully refunded. In any other purchase & warranty situation that would be the options available to me.

Thank you.

How can O2 feel justified in arguing that a phone where the recipient can't hear the caller is 'fit for purpose'??? It beggars belief.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like Mr_Wendle has been treated pretty disgustingly to me, and despite having been an O2 customer since right back when I got my first mobile (a mighty Nokia 3210) in 1999 it's enough to put me off getting another phone from them if there's the chance I could be catapulted into a months-long nightmare trying to get one that actually works.

Pablo, are you for real??! You're arguing that treating customers this way is fine simply because technically no laws have been broken? I despair! When I think about the service I've received returning faulty goods to tiny, independent retailers compared to this description of the service received from a huge, incredibly wealthy multinational company, it makes me realise that with some companies, all sense of morality seems to get completely lost in the cogs of some huge, impersonal corporate machine once they grow above a certain size, probably because they're being run by people who share your attitude and assume that if something is legal then it doesn't matter if it's immoral.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like Mr_Wendle has been treated pretty disgustingly to me, and despite having been an O2 customer since right back when I got my first mobile (a mighty Nokia 3210) in 1999 it's enough to put me off getting another phone from them if there's the chance I could be catapulted into a months-long nightmare trying to get one that actually works.

Pablo, are you for real??! You're arguing that treating customers this way is fine simply because technically no laws have been broken? I despair! When I think about the service I've received returning faulty goods to tiny, independent retailers compared to this description of the service received from a huge, incredibly wealthy multinational company, it makes me realise that with some companies, all sense of morality seems to get completely lost in the cogs of some huge, impersonal corporate machine once they grow above a certain size, probably because they're being run by people who share your attitude and assume that if something is legal then it doesn't matter if it's immoral.

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Lets remember we are customers here too who have been given one side of an ongoing situation.

Members then reply with ideas and information both from their own personnel experience and from T&C's.

By posting the story in the first place the OP is inviting any and all replies.

[Anonymous]

I think that's what surprised me the most; the fact that any customer would take that stance given that very few people would be so understanding if they found themselves in the same situation.

Whether or not there's another side to the story is irrelevant in terms of whether or not the side that we have heard is immoral.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Lets remember we are customers here too who have been given one side of an ongoing situation.

Members then reply with ideas and information both from their own personnel experience and from T&C's.

By posting the story in the first place the OP is inviting any and all replies.

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I understand and agree ... to a point.

I don't see how O2 can have a different 'side of the story' since I have given the few basic facts that there are and everything else is laid out in this thread for you to verify for yourselves.

The phone is faulty (from the start) and doesn't perform it's primary function, I followed O2s requests/directions and now they will only offer me a refurbished phone as a replacement due to the delay caused by my trying to cooperate. Their reason - because that's written in their Terms.

I don't think that's fair under these particular circumstances and I would argue that if anyone had been treated by O2 like I have I doubt any else would feel any different.

Titan is spot on.

Whilst I understand the legal position it's still a pretty poor way to treat a customer especially considering that the fault is now proven beyond contest to be a faulty component that has been there from the start. O2 have no grounds not to replace it except for their choice of their own terms and rules.

As an O2 customer for over 10 years, this will likely be my last contract with them because of this.

The whole saga also will have a negative effect on my willingness to cooperate with suppliers in order to try to let them save avoidable costs.

A lot of people just return something straight away and keep getting brand new ones. Not only does that have a negative impact on consumers in several ways including driving up costs but personally I don't want to be forced to be that kind of uncooperative customer. I want to treat everyone fairly and give them a fair and reasonable chance.

I will say however that I have amazed myself with my tolerance, normally I'd have gone all litigious by now!

My reason for posting on here has not changed from the start - to get independent opinions from other O2 customers.

I am grateful for all suggestions and welcome all opinions so long as they are genuine and genuinely unbiased and I have tried to keep my own comments to the same.

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As a further update, I received an email yesterday morning at 07:58 from HTC/Regenersis stating that my phone was on it's way back. Considering that it only arrived there on Monday I was a little alarmed so rang them for more details.

It is being returned as "no fault found".

I don't want to say too much at this point but suffice to say that I finally got a call back from a Senior Manager at Regenersis who will (once I have received and then returned the phone to them) kindly oversee the re-repair.

The problem lies in the fact that the phone was sent to Poland and HTC do not and did not test the front mic (as used on calls), only the rear mic. despite the fault being clearly detailed. The reason - they won't pay to make a call.

The saga continues.

I still have no phone.

[MI5]

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@Anonymous wrote:

The problem lies in the fact that the phone was sent to Poland and HTC do not and did not test the front mic (as used on calls), only the rear mic. despite the fault being clearly detailed. The reason - they won't pay to make a call.

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That is just plain ridiculous - Someone needs a "Jobsworth" reward for that !!!

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Pablo, are you for real??! You're arguing that treating customers this way is fine simply because technically no laws have been broken? I despair! When I think about the service I've received returning faulty goods to tiny, independent retailers compared to this description of the service received from a huge, incredibly wealthy multinational company, it makes me realise that with some companies, all sense of morality seems to get completely lost in the cogs of some huge, impersonal corporate machine once they grow above a certain size, probably because they're being run by people who share your attitude and assume that if something is legal then it doesn't matter if it's immoral.

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I was staying out of this but seeing as you asked me a question...(and maybe this will help the OP's understanding of where I was coming from).

The OP was originally talking about how O2 had to replace his phone, as if they were under an obligation to do so.  I was explaining that no such obligation existed.  I'm sure that the OP now understands that from a legal viewpoint, in accordance with the Sale Of Goods act and the manufacturer's warranty, that O2 don't have to replace the phone, and certainly that they aren't obligated to do it with a brand new handset as it appeared the OP thought.

At no point did I say what I personally thought of the situation, or did I speak from a moral/immoral viewpoint.  Simply put, my own thoughts/feelings are pretty unimportant, because O2 have already made their decision and made their stance clear to the OP.

i was simply explaining from a legal viewpoint what O2's obligations (or lack of obligations) were.  Anywho, back to staying out of it (unless some asks me to comment).  It seems like the OP is on the way to having it resolved by going down the route that O2 were advising - repair.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I was staying out of this but seeing as you asked me a question...(and maybe this will help the OP's understanding of where I was coming from).

The OP was originally talking about how O2 had to replace his phone, as if they were under an obligation to do so.  I was explaining that no such obligation existed.  I'm sure that the OP now understands that from a legal viewpoint, in accordance with the Sale Of Goods act and the manufacturer's warranty, that O2 don't have to replace the phone, and certainly that they aren't obligated to do it with a brand new handset as it appeared the OP thought.

At no point did I say what I personally thought of the situation, or did I speak from a moral/immoral viewpoint.  Simply put, my own thoughts/feelings are pretty unimportant, because O2 have already made their decision and made their stance clear to the OP.

i was simply explaining from a legal viewpoint what O2's obligations (or lack of obligations) were.  Anywho, back to staying out of it (unless some asks me to comment).  It seems like the OP is on the way to having it resolved by going down the route that O2 were advising - repair.

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Fair enough. Apologies: I obviously took what you said out of context.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Fair enough. Apologies: I obviously took what you said out of context.

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It's alright, on an internet forum its hard sometimes to get context or tone.  What I try and do here is give input from 'O2's side of things' - ie how they come to make the decisions they do, whether information people have been given is accurate or not etc. 

I give my own opinion from time to time, and when I do I clearly state that it's my opinion I'm giving.

[Anonymous]

Pablo, hypothetically, what's your stance on O2 giving a refund for a faulty phone?

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Pablo, hypothetically, what's your stance on O2 giving a refund for a faulty phone?

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Personally, I think they should go back to a 14 day cooling off period, rather than the 7 that it was recently reduced to.  They, I think, were the last network to reduce the cooling off period.  However, 7 days it is. 

As for a case like this it would depend on a few things. 

- which day the fault was first identified

- how much fault testing was needed before they came to the conclusion it was a handset fault

- whether fault testing was delayed by inaction (on either o2 or the customer's side).

So, if for example the fault was identified on day 1 of you getting it, and all the fault testing could have been done in a day, but O2 were shown to be dragging their heels (missed callbacks, suddenly adding steps that weren't discussed at first etc etc) then there would be a reasonable argument for them taking the steps that they would have taken had it been within the first 7/14 days as applicable.

If, however, they weren't told about the fault until the very last day of when the period ran out that they would just straightforwardly replace the item and there was a load of faffing about / inaction by the customer, and that took it outside the period, then I think they would be right to stick to their guns.

If the case isn't clear cut either way, not black and white, and its just 'one of those things' that led to the fault not being identified/fault tested within the time that they would normally just replace the item, then if I were taking that call I'd probably run it past my manager for help deciding, and might go out of process if I felt it was justified in doing so.

I genuinely don't know which category your case fits into, so didn't offer a personal opinion on whether o2 were right and wrong, just what you were legally entitled to.