Discussions about O2 and age verification

[Anonymous]

Just received a text from TPTB saying I need to confirm I'm over 18 to view adult material. Until then, it'll remain blocked on my phone. I don't have a credit card so I'll need to do this in store. Just wondering, I have no particular desire to view pornographic material or register to flirt websites on my phone but if I don't have this ban lifted, will it affect my general day-to-day browsing in any way? Otherwise, I won't bother.
Secondly, when did this come about? Never needed to confirm my age in the past. And why couldn't they have sorted this in store when I bought the phone?

[Anonymous]

Hi all
I'm looking into the concerns you've raised in more detail and will come back to you with a reply tomorrow.
Thanks
Chris

Waiting with interest Chris, as I too have received the message this afternoon.
This all seems a little pointless when your date of birth is stated on your personal details on 'my o2'
This really concerns me!
@ canwefixit
I presume you still have to give a credit card number?

Not at all it's basically the account info, date of birth and what the customer wants access to.

You cannot verify your age through customer services as there's no way of proving your age. Trust me, I tried this afternoon. You have to go instore or use a credit card online. Not quite sure where you're getting your info from.

[Anonymous]

Hi all
I'm looking into the concerns you've raised in more detail and will come back to you with a reply tomorrow.
Thanks
Chris

Thanks! Appreciate it! As always, O2 customer services didn't have a clue what I was asking. No change there.

[Anonymous]

Thank you, Chris@O2
I'm very interested in understanding what usage data (websites, sms content, etc) is shared with bango.net and to what purpose.
I'm also interested in understanding what the motivation behind this is, beyond establishing an easy profit share from "adult services" for O2 and Bango.net
Can't quite buy the idea that it's really about parental controls (the idea that a teenager couldn't copy numbers of a card from parents wallet, especially if they think it is a once only billing thing, is only for the blissfully naive yet think it must be more than the obvious extra cash flow.
Incidentally, when I spoke to Billing about this today... (my turn to be naive, I had imagined that there would be some kind of communication path even if the lady didn't have a procedure for logging complaints yet apparently accounts have no email accesd)... anyway the lady was quite shocked when I mentioned the inappropriateness of unseen age verification methods.... inconceivable because that would be fraud... bless
Ps... Regarding the 18 websites referenced in the "increase bango.net conversion rates" sms, we now all know that translate.google.com was one of them but what of the other 17?

[Anonymous]

I think you raise a valid point tomj77, no-one who is customer facing at O2 seems to be aware of what is ACTUALLY going on. They seem to believe its like the previous (?) system where customers are age verified once.

[Anonymous]

Hey Everyone,
So I received the message in question this morning, initially I disregarded it as spam. Tho I was curious as to what was 18+ and who was checking.
I came here as a first port of call, reviewed this before calling o2 ( on 202) for clarification. Thanks to those that have posted and provided insight.
According to the csa at 02. This service is provided to protect kids. I explained that I had already provided my age ( contract customer ) was not a kid and would like the block lifted, Apparently betting websites are 18+.
Long story short, he explained that all i needed to do was provide my credit card details via the website and it would be lifted. Refusing to do so and asking why I needed to, given the lengthy verification process when applying for the contract. I was met with alot of nonsense.
Finally, He admitted he had a form he could fill in there and it would remove the 18 limit. (may be of use to some people).
With that, I asked for clarification with regards to systems monitoring my web usage, in particular the analytics company that appear to be involved (Bango) and the fact something is checking where i am going to "age rate" it. He went off and spoke to someone, upon return he claims that they have no record of this company being involved and i would need to speak to them. o2 do not monitor my web usage other than volume. which is clearly a lie given something had flagged over 18 sites and was attempting to block them.
Asking for clarity on how they check if am visiting an 18 site, i was told there is a flag on my account and that was all that was used. When i had visited an 18 site it would check the flag and if it hadnt been set, i would be blocked. Again I asked how does it know i am on an 18 site if you do not monitor my usage. He couldnt answer it, only circulating on the fact that there was a flag on my account saying i wasnt age verified. sigh.
I asked to be removed from any web usage monitoring and that i did not want my web usage (even anonymised) being passed onto any third party companies. He had little to no concept of what i was asking. Im tempted to call again in the hope I can speak to someone with a little more knowledge of how the internet works.
Personally I do not want any analytics company creating a unique "unidentifable" record of my browsing history disguised as verifying my age on websites. Surely this must cross some data protection act.
Hopefully Chris can provide more insight later today. Thought I would share in the meantime. (sorry for the lengthy post).
Regards,
Shaun

[Anonymous]

Just had this too. My primary annoyance isn't the block on 18+ sites (a full pc is sooooo much better lol) but it's the fact that my useage may be monitored (even anonymous stats), there are periodic redirects (Bango appears in the address bar fleetingly), and I'm sick to death of sites failing to load as the HTTP request has been refused by the host (BBC, wikipedia, gamespot, anything, sometimes taking 3 or 4 reloads).

[Anonymous]

In case anyone had a false sense of security about annonymised data held by Bango...
From http://bango.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/688

How do we get the users MSISDN for marketing or customer care purposes?

..... You can obtain the phone numbers (MSISDN) of your users dynamically, using a secure web service, either while the user browses your mobile site or at a later time.
Phone numbers are provided to Bango by the Mobile Operator or determined by some other method.
In other cases the user phone number may be masked by the operator or simply not be known (Wifi user).
In all cases, Bango provides a unique (to that user) global user identifier (User ID) so that you can track users even where the phone number is hidden by the carrier or unavailable.
Mobile operators and regulators typically restrict the provision of phone numbers to you, depending on your usage of those phone numbers, or on the time since the phone number was last used.
Bango automatically implements those rules to ensure you can get all available phone numbers, yet avoid the risk of your service being disconnected for non-compliance......

Chris@O2 - This reeks of dead sealife... Awaiting your comments

[Anonymous]

Nice find tomj777. It is very concerning.
I have been on the phone a couple of times to o2 since my post, finally spoke with someone claiming a little bit of technical knowledge through the livechat on the o2 website.
They informed me I could get the monitoring turned off only to link me to the age verification site. I quered, if i age verify, will you no longer monitor my web usage?
The response was it would not be turned off as it was used for security purposes, however blocked sites would be unblocked. When i quered what about my browsing habits posed a security risk to o2. He couldnt answer it.
He stated that only the urls of sites i visited were collected and not the data on the websites.
Finally I asked:
Me: If i cannot have this monitoring disabled I would like information as to where i can make a complaint to the information Ombudsman?
CSA: I'm sorry for that you'll have to speak to our network service team. You can call us on 202 free from your O2 phone and request this call to be trasferred to our network service team.
Ive not had a chance to phone and ask them but I will be following it up.
Side note: I have a copy of the full conversation, if anyone wants to read it.
This sounds like a whole Bt/Phorm style scenario again?

[Anonymous]

If its true, as the csa says, that O2 does not provide an opt-out; then a complaint to the office of the information commissioner (www.ico.org.uk) is in order.
I think O2 need to update the terms and conditions and notify all customers that their mobile internet use is being monitored by a third party.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for the delay on this, here's our full response...
We've now started asking customers to verify they're over 18 where necessary, in line with mobile industry regulations. To do this, we'll ask for your credit card number and do a test transaction of £1 to verify that it's valid. Once the transactions is complete, we'll reimburse £2.50 either to the Pay Monthly account, or as Pay & Go credit.
It's only necessary to do this once, after which you're free to visit any rated site. The information we gather during this exercise is used exclusively for age verification, we don't store it or use it for anything else.
Some of you have asked why we're doing this for contract customers who need to be 18+ to get a contract. Well, put simply, we know that sometimes an over-18 will take out a contract for an under-18, such as a parent buying for their child. With that in mind, you've also mentioned that it would be easy for a child to 'borrow' their parent's card to meet the verification. This is another good reason for the £1 transaction - it will appear on a credit card statement and alert the cardholder to any fraudulent usage.
Concerns have been raised about this being a money-making exercise for O2. As mentioned above, we actually reimburse £2.50 to each customer, who will only need to verify once - so we're losing £1.50 each time, and it's you guys who profit.
A couple of other FAQ's are below:
Q: Why should O2 dictate which websites customers can use on their phones?
A: O2 doesn’t decide which websites are classified as 18-rated. All the main UK mobile operators have agreed to a Code of Practice to protect children in this area. Out of this code, the Independent Mobile Classification Body (IMCB) was appointed to develop and maintain a classification framework which determines whether content should be rated as 18+. All the UK mobile operators use and adhere to this framework to ensure a consistent approach in the UK. For more on the IMCB see http://www.imcb.org.uk
Q: Who are Bango, why does O2 use them for their age verification system?
A: You’ll see from the URLs that Bango (see bango.net or bango.com) run O2’s age verification system on our behalf. They’re experts in this space, with many years of experience working with both mobile operators and content providers worldwide. Bango has provided O2’s age verification and parental controls systems for over five years.
Q: Why does O2 block some sites that are suitable for under 18s?
A: The internet is huge, and no system is perfect. Occasionally we do accidentally block sites that should be available to anyone without proving their age. If you find an example of this please let us know, and we’ll do our best to unblock the site quickly. You can either let us know here on the O2 Forums, or via Twitter (@O2).
Hope this helps
Thanks
Chris