£`1.50 a month for a VAT invoice?

[Duncana]

Apparently the only way to receive a bill without "This is not a VAT invoice" on it and instead, a VAT number, is to shift to paper billing at £1.50 a month. 

Is this correct. It is what Customer Services told me. 

If so, would someone from O2 like to explain why before I throw my toys out of my pram on principle and go elsewhere? 

[jonsie]

The first part of your post is quite obvious and the sole reason for the posts on here from people needing and requesting the VAT invoices. Surely they don't need educating on why they need them legally? They need them to claim the money back. I'm 100% certain these requests are't for any fraudulent activity!

[Anonymous]

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@jonsie wrote:

educating 

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The stringency and rules ref record keeping apply to both the issuer ( O2) and the recipient of the VAT invoice. (small business) It saves the recipient money if they are legally able to reclaim vat collected from them by O2, or at least offset the vat payments against the VAT receipts , which is how all organisations manage VAT. The only people who really end up paying VAT are consumers

So for small businesses managing vat record keeping is straight forward and cheap and advantageous, for O2 horribly complex and expensive, so the fewer records O2 have to keep the cheaper it is.

Do you remember the 'Gold Chains' episode of Only Fools? The con man claimed he had obtained the chains cheap using a simple VAT fraud scam, by not paying VAT on them. Cos they were destined 'for the American market'. Well claiming VAT back on goods where it has not been paid in the first place, is basically what VAT carousel fraud involves and was endemic in this industry, in recent years &  usually by the big players.

No one is saying that O2 customers want VAT invoices to perpetrate vat scams, I am sure 99 out of a 100 like the OP, want them for legitimate claims -  but the potential for fraud is greatly reduced in the dodgy 1%, if VAT invoices are not issued as easily, especially for phones where the potential for scams is much higher than say food, petrol or travel.

[Anonymous]

It's really easy to do if you are registered for VAT,

A. Daley Trading obtain ten VAT invoices for mobile phones where the VAT totals £800. When doing his returns he offsets the VAT he has legitmately collected from his customers say £10,000 against what he he has paid out say £6000, so he owes the revenue £4000, but then adds the fictcious mobiles and suddenly only owes £3200.

VAT inspectors turn up and do an audit and take said VAT invoices away and call 02.... 'We think Daley's been up to no good - out of the x milion phones you sold three years ago, please pull these ten records....'

[jonsie]

O2 have to pay the vat that they charge customer. Its a government legality so O2 have to keep records. How on earth is it more complex or more expensive to give the customer a vat receipt? Anyone who pays vat is legally entitled to a vat receipt. Fact.

Why the need for over complex explanations and excuses for O2. The posters I'm sure don't want or need long posts giving excuses for O2 that they get bored halfway through.

I'll say no more about this now. O2 can supply vat invoices whether business or consumer and they should certainly not have to pay £1.50 for something O2 legally have to provide on request. Its as simple as that without the need for rhyme and reason. 

[Anonymous]

O2 have to pay the vat that they charge customer.

No they have to pay, or be paid the difference between what they pay in VAT to thier own suppliers, and what they collect from their customers.

Its a government legality so O2 have to keep records.

Yes, but records where there is no possibility of the customer claiming VAT back are much cheaper to keep. No vat invoice, no potential for reclaim, everyones happy mO2  sold X millions to vat paying end consumers and show clear evidence - VAT man gets his tax everyone's laughing. (cept the small business customer, obviously but then someone going have to the hit, and the small business customer comes up highon the hit list)

How on earth is it more complex or more expensive to give the customer a vat receipt?

Cos you have to be able to prove transaction by transaction that the goods were sold and received . If you are buying 500,000 phones off Hauwei that's one vat receipt, and one goods rcvd note - if you are selling 500,000 phones to customers thats 500,000 vat receipts...500'000 goods rcvd notes a huge amount of admin and time and cost. So much easier not to give them out.

Anyone who pays vat is legally entitled to a vat receipt. Fact.

True, doesn't mean it's in the interest of the vendor to issue one. Everyone arrested is legally  entitled to pencil and paper and to read the Pace legislation. doesn't mean they get either, as this would seriously hamper the police's effectiveness.

Why the need for over complex explanations and excuses for O2.

Clearly it's a complicated subject, and I am not excusing just explaining.

The posters I'm sure don't want or need long posts giving excuses for O2 that they get bored halfway through.

The posters are really interested in VAT and how it works...cos they stand to gain or lose. Everyone else not so much.

I'll say no more about this now. O2 can supply vat invoices whether business or consumer and they should certainly nothave to pay £1.50 for something O2 legally have to provide on request. Its as simple as that without the need for rhyme and reason. 

All very true but I'm sure sadly, O2 see it quite differently.