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Multiple Texts Off 84222 number just now?

Penny7
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I have received multiple text messages off a 84222 number that states it is a Friday lockdown offer. The usual text STOP to unsubscribe or visit link for whatever. I’ve not replied to it, I’ve just blocked the number via my phone, but will I be charged for even receiving the texts?? Thanks in advance 🙂
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Payforit_Sucks
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@Chris_K wrote:
Hey all,

Thank you for your reports and highlighting this. We have been informed of a technical issue from the merchant behind these texts, who is currently investigating. In the meantime we'd like to assure you that you'll be refunded for any messages received from this shortcode during this timeframe, and you'll also be contacted shortly once the refund is complete.

Sorry again for any confusion or frustration this has caused.

@Chris_K It's great that O2 are going to take their responsibilities seriously in this instance. We will be raising these cases with PSA as a further example of the harm done by allowing O2 to operate as an unregulated Payment Services provider. If O2 complied with the Payment Services Directives like all other payment services, consumers would have confidence that if something like this happened they would get redress. As it is O2 offer no disputes resolution facility for the payments they facilitate and leave consumers with all the hassle of pursuing their cases through the County Court. Disgraceful!

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MI5
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Good to know you'll be doing that on our behalf @Payforit_Sucks 

thumbsup

I have no affiliation whatsoever with O2 or any subsidiary companies. Comments posted are entirely of my own opinion. This is not Customer Service so we are unable to help with account specific issues.

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madasaf1sh
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@Payforit_Sucks

I think this needs doing for all networks, including the Virtual networks, as this problem isnt unique to o2.

As its ok to lambast o2, but until they all take responsibility nothing will change and it also needs the FCA andPhone-paid Services Authority to not be toothless with the companies, who abuse it and take advantage of this.

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Payforit_Sucks
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@bouncealong313 wrote:
I just looked up the number on the PSA service checker (https://psauthority.org.uk/for-consumers/service-checker) and I definitely have never heard of them and never subscribed or taken part in their supposed service at all. The PSA website indicates you have to try and fight for a refund from the company themselves and then if no luck, report it or the PSA and they take a look at the company but don't guarantee any individual refunds? So... a shockingly unsecure service provided through phone providers where businesses and scam artists can freely fraudulently scam people simply by sending messages has no safety net from the actual phone providers?! (From how the PSA site reads)

MI5 I'm sorry but "there are systems in place"...? There obviously aren't! I didn't "confirm" anything at all about these texts or charges to these scammers or to O2 and still got screwed!

@bouncealong313 You've identified the problem very well. The PSA lays down rules for these "services", but there is no verification in place prior to the charges being applied to your account. To make matters worse, there is no disputes resolution procedure. As you correctly say, you can complain to PSA, but unless they receive a large number of complaints about a "service" they will do nothing. Even when they do act, it takes months for them to "investigate", by which time the company behind the service is in liquidation and unable to pay refunds or fines.

Sadly, in cases where PSA fail to act, there is no way for consumers to obtain a refund other than using the Small Claims procedure through the County Court.

 

We're trying to put pressure on PSA to amend the rules to provide consumers with a simple method of obtaining redress when they receive unlawful charges.

 

Until such a disputes mechanism exists, our advice is to insist that your network place a bar on all third party charges to your account. Vodafone, EE and O2 all allow you to have such a bar. Three do not.  This bar is particularly important if

  • The phone is to be used by a child
  • The phone is used by a vulnerable adult
  • The SIM card is installed in a device such as a modem or router, not routinely capable of sending/receiving texts 

We believe that ALL networks should be required to offer this bar, and that it should be applied by default. Consumers should have to opt-in if they want to use their phone account to pay for goods and services other than telephony.

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Payforit_Sucks
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@Cleoriff wrote:

@bouncealong313 

O2 can NOT refuse to put a bar on Charge to mobile or Premium rate numbers, if these are requested.

I have never heard of anyone having a problem with this request before.

Outrageous.!!

Guide: Tips to avoid unexpected charges on your bill 


Unfortunately O2 can refuse to put a third party charge bar on your account. In the UK there is no legal requirement to provide this. Currently O2 refuse to allow it for business accounts, although I have never heard of it being refused for a personal account. The Three network refuses to implement a bar in the UK, although they do in Ireland where it is a legal requirement.

 

Making it a legal requirement would probably require the intervention of OFCOM as PSA tell us they do not have the authority to require this.

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Payforit_Sucks
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@madasaf1sh wrote:

@Payforit_Sucks

I think this needs doing for all networks, including the Virtual networks, as this problem isnt unique to o2.

As its ok to lambast o2, but until they all take responsibility nothing will change and it also needs the FCA andPhone-paid Services Authority to not be toothless with the companies, who abuse it and take advantage of this.


@madasaf1sh 

Very True. O2 are by no means the worst company for these scams. That accolade currently belongs to Three who have been plagued by them in recent months and who won't allow you to opt out of phone payment. This is the first problem we've had with O2 for some time, and it also affects Vodafone. To be fair to O2 after initially teling consumers to sort it out for themselves, they appear to have had a re-think.  

 

I wish the phone networks would perform proper due diligence, risk control and assessment before entering in to contracts with companies like Tap2Bill. Tap2Bill have handled millions of pounds worth of fraudulent payments on behalf of proven scammers in recent years. Why do O2 continue to do business with them? It looks as though EE have made the sensible decision to refuse to work with intermediaries that generate a large number of complaints. 

 

There remains the question of how this company obtained the phone numbers in order to make the charges. Consumers re entitled to an answer to this question, and to refer the matter to ICO if not satisfied.

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bouncealong313
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@Chris_K while I'm glad that O2 are looking into it and doing something about it in this instance (forgive me for remaining frustrated and aggrevied about it all until the charges are *actually* rebated on my phone bill), this is clearly NOT a genuine "merchant". This company should not even have my details at all, let alone be under any impression that they have any consent from me to process my data OR use it to charge me for any kind of text - especially since GDPR made it a requirement that a company's actions be made extremely clear and consent is not allowed to be assumed anymore for such commercial purposes. I have never heard of them, never signed up to anything to do with them or anything remotely related to the content of their texts or their PSA company description, never text or communicated with 84222 before - and coming from a dispute resolution and regulatory work background I'm someone who reads the small print before ticking boxes when giving my details out! Even if the company had a "technical issue", it shouldn't have even been POSSIBLE for them to have done anything to me even with a technical issue! (and I imagine it's the same for the other victims too)

 

What are O2 going to do about it after refunding the charges? These thieves should not be left be. Why don't O2 bar their service from your entire network - every single customer - going forward and stand up to them for the sake of your customers? I would love to see a service that has some guts to proactively do what is truly right and proactively protect their customers to stamp out fraudulent companies like this, not just do the bare minimum to sweep it under the carpet when enough of their customers kick up a fuss.

 

If you look back at who-called.co.uk for 84222, people have been reporting it since 2017 for the very same thing they did yesterday but just on a smaller scale - it was only a matter of time before they attempted to scale it up and see if they could get a way with it. The only "technical issue" here is that they probably tried to defraud too many people by too much in one go, to keep their low profile of getting away with it! My guess is that if they just get a virtual slap on the wrist for all the theft they carried out yesterday, they'll just learn to remain scaled down in future so they can stay relatively "under the radar" and continue to operate in their fraudulent way. They've already been getting away with it for three years already.

 

If the regulator won't do their job properly or fast enough to shut them down, why don't you create a working taskforce with the other big phone providers to actively do something together yourselves and stamp this out once and for all? It would show your customers that you're serious about their protection, help retain customers and would save you money, bad press and a massive headache in dealing with things like this as reactive Customer Service issues instead of preventable opportunities if you put a proper system in place. Change does not need to be solely driven/forced by regulation.

 

It should not be as easy as "they have your phone number" for them to be able to charge people's accounts in the first place. This is an absolutely ridiculous system and O2 should be taking proactive steps to lead the pack and make fundamental changes to protect it's customers when using it's service.

 

Just because regulation might be different between phone providers and banks and not FORCE you to do certain things to protect your customers, doesn't mean that you can't CHOOSE to do better yourselves.

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MI5
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Not forgetting that O2 (and the other networks) take a %age of the money stolen from customers in these scams.
I think I read it was something like 30%, so incentive to stop them is low.
I have no affiliation whatsoever with O2 or any subsidiary companies. Comments posted are entirely of my own opinion. This is not Customer Service so we are unable to help with account specific issues.

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bouncealong313
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@MI5 I'm pretty sure there are laws that say you can't financially benefit from the proceeds of crime, otherwise you can be held accountable for the very same crimes yourself?

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madasaf1sh
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@bouncealong313 

From my job dealing with email security issues, and spam and phishing daily, i can tell you that  99% of the time they just get lucky and upload spreadsheets and hope for the best. 

The amount of times i see abc, abd, abe, abf and abg @ adomain.com when the only valid one is abc@adomain.com

These type's of scams only need a hit rate of 1-2% to yield a profit in some instances.

As @Payforit_Sucks said the only way for us consumers to seeks recourse is to log as many complaints about this to the ICO who can and will take action against them.

@Payforit_Sucks

That's the problem, and any big legitimate player in this space will have a direct relationship with o2 and proper process and procedure, whilst others will go through a 3rd party and if that one isnt as diligent they will get through.

My thoughts are it should be an opt-in rather than an opt-out services, so that those who want to use reverse charge sms or all short codes are made aware of charges and that its their responsibility.

 


Im sure o2 could lead on this approach.

 

(edited to correct wording)

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