NHS and MumsNet - where have all the nursing staff gone?

[pgn]

An interesting debate-starter, this one:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48438139

Does the concept of "flexible working" even make sense in the context of an NHS environment?

I think there're undercurrents of something else here, but as one with a daughter looking to train as a nurse when she gets her A-levels next year, I'm only too aware of the disconnect between the places available locally to study to become a nurse, vbs the story in this article.

The two sides of the story tell different things...

[Bambino]

• international recruitment by appointing lead agencies to co-ordinate the process

How are they going to recruit internationally if Brexit kicks in?

• encouraging nurses back into the NHS with the promise of flexible working opportunities

How are nurses going to be encouraged back with all the talk of the NHS being sold off if Brexit happens?

Edit: Just to add this into the mix. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/donald-trump-nhs-trade-deal-woody-johnson-matt-hancoc...

[Cleoriff]

Oh let me get my teeth into this one

Firstly nurses leave the profession as they are overworked and to some extent underpaid. I say to some extent, as nurses NEVER get paid for the additional hours they do (if they are employed directly by the NHS)

Believe me, for many nurses a 40 hr week turns into an 80 hr week if they are busy and understaffed.

Agency staff on the other hand get paid for the hours they do, so are better off as they don't have the same level responsibility. (In my opinion they don't get the same job satisfaction either) There again that depends whether your are there for the love of the job or the money.

Flexible nursing IS an option as long as Trust you work for does NOT abuse it.

We did job share at our Trust and it worked well for the nurses involved.

The article says Back to Nursing courses were started in 2014. Rubbish. We developed our own BTN course in 1998. I presented it to the UKCC, the governing body for nursing and it was accepted. We charged a minimal cost and the only proviso was the  staff on these courses had to give us 12 months of employment on completion of the course.

In relation to your daughter @pgn , this is a problem with ANY university course. You finish the course and there is a risk that there won't be a place in the NHS when she finishes. She may have to relocate if she wants NHS.

There are ways round that though. She could always start working for an agency or nursing home or even try district nursing. It would keep her in work until a vacancy in the NHS becomes available.

[Cleoriff]

Just to add, many of my nursing colleagues cleared off to Australia and the USA. Better pay, better lifestyle and no underfunding.

Two of my friends (a married couple) went to Phoenix Arizona for 5 years. They worked in ITU and earned a shedload of money doing the job they both loved. Back in the UK now and have a beautiful house and great lifestyle. They did well out of the USA

[Anonymous]

I totally agree medical staff are underpaid for what they do and while the private medical system might be more beneficial financially, for someone on an average salary the insurance premium could be crippling, particularly if you have a number of pre-existing conditions as I do.

I've never applied for private insurance as either the underwriters would be falling off their chair with laughter or I'd be looking at handing over my salary to an insurance firm.

As someone who has benefitted greatly from it, I believe passionately that the NHS should stay as is but there needs to be more personal responsibility for self inflicted ailments such as obesity.

I am aware there maybe conditions that cause weight gain but where it's related to diet, tell people and if that means temporarily hurting their feelings, so be it.

Pouring more and more money in to deal with that issue isn't really going to fix anything.

[Anonymous]

Interesting topic this ... @Cleoriff will know what I feel about the NHS ... God Bless It

Thank you for all the comments above

Without the NHS me nor my family wouldn't be here 

I don't have the money for private healthcare nor insurance 

[pgn]

Makes me wonder why Daughter #2 wants to go that way, but mine is not to reason why. She had her first experience of ward life this week, 2 successive days work observation on one of the wards in the local hospital - the various ranks within the nursing staff became all too apparent on day 1, by day 2 she had worked out who was whom in the pecking order

One question, do nursing staff in the NHS get asked to opt-out of the Working Time Directive regs? Seems to me the agency staff might get both sides of their toast buttered...

Interesting feedback from all, thank you. 

[ComaChameleon]

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@Cleoriff wrote:

Oh let me get my teeth into this one

Firstly nurses leave the profession as they are overworked and to some extent underpaid. I say to some extent, as nurses NEVER get paid for the additional hours they do (if they are employed directly by the NHS)

Believe me, for many nurses a 40 hr week turns into an 80 hr week if they are busy and understaffed.

Agency staff on the other hand get paid for the hours they do, so are better off as they don't have the same level responsibility. (In my opinion they don't get the same job satisfaction either) There again that depends whether your are there for the love of the job or the money.

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@Cleoriff 

What happens to the hours? Are they tracked? Here you get them at least on a hour-account (my bf has more than 300 plus hours since october 2017... You have to get paidout at once - so too much taxes. And freetime for is not possible as shortage of staff. They introduced a 120€-bonus taxfree per shift you work extra (plus hours directly paid out)

What does a nurse earn as a start salary?

[Cleoriff]

No the hours aren't tracked as such @ComaChameleon 

If you are a good ward sister you would keep an overtime book and where possible give your staff time off in lieu.

NHS nurses in the UK do NOT get paid overtime.

[ComaChameleon]

@Cleoriff 

Do they have a union?

In EMS we have to write our plushours on a paper and give it to the boss (or like where I was in between we had a trackingthing with fingerprintsensors)

I meant the normal salary - if there is a tariff.

Maybe a strike would help.. Like they did here.