Brexit: No-deal opponents defeat government

[Cleoriff]

Tory rebels and opposition MPs have defeated the government in the first stage of their attempt to pass a law designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

The Commons voted 328 to 301 to take control of the agenda, meaning they can bring forward a bill seeking to delay the UK's exit date.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49573555

Boris Johnson responded by saying he would bring forward a motion for a general election.

And so the saga continues

[Cleoriff]

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@jonsie wrote:

Labour will lose any general election whilst JC is leader. Most Labour supporters dislike him, no charisma and just shows why the electing public have zero trust in any party moving this country forward.

The Tories would probably get back in with the same outcome of no majority.

In the three years since the referendum, many of the older generation who voted to leave will have passed away and there is a whole new generation of 15-17 year olds eligible to vote and I'm of the opinion that if you took a poll of all voters now that they would vote to remain

I firmly believe that article 50 should be revoked but there seems to be little chance of that happening.

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I'm with you every way on that @jonsie I've always been proud to vote Labour, though never will with Jeremy Corbyn in power. I don't like his affiliations!!

Also I agree that there would be a vote to remain if the referendum was polled again.

[Mi-Amigo]

Well put @jonsie and @Cleoriff 

I voted Labour in the past but would not vote for Jeremy and would prefer Yvette Cooper as leader.

As for Brexit, I voted leave - hoping that Britain could wrestle control away from France and Germany and take control of its own laws. To be perfectly honest, with the benefit of hindsight, if there was a new vote on Brexit I would, more than likely, vote remain.

[welshsteve76]

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@TallTrees wrote:
The electorate were not properly prepared for the vote far too much rhetoric. It is my opinion this referendum was essential to get right as it seriously affects the country and everyone living in it. In business board rooms on an issue as serious as this would require a something like a 2/3rds majority. To move this country on such a close count is irresponsible. To ignore the voters of such a large number for remain is very tricky and if there are shortages, no work or a large number of unemployed and a downturn in the economy it is fuel for civil unrest.
Who better to know this than our Government therefore we will have a "fudge" and end up being out but in but not at the top table (very clever). Ah well the brits have had to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune before.

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Couldn't agree more @TallTrees 

The "first past the post" approach to was just wrong for something like this.  It really should have been a minimum of 2/3 majority for this to go through.  It is a such a huge change for this country.  Lets be honest though, people will complain no matter where you set the bar.

I think ALL MPs should be ashamed of themselves for how they have handled this.  As the EU have repeatedly said, the UK parliament has been very good right from the beginning of showing and telling what it DOESN'T want from brexit, but completely incompetent when it comes to stating what it DOES want. 

As has been said, every last MP has been voting with their own (or their leaders') agenda, and not putting their constituents or country first.  Sajid Javid is a prime example of this.  Completely changing his stance of the whole brexit process and sucked up to Johnson so he could stay in power and retain a job in the government.

[TallTrees]

Regrettably you are right @jonsie 

[Anonymous]

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@Cleoriff wrote:

Jeremy Corbyn hey? Been calling for a General Election for ages....and now they wont vote for one.

Makes you wonder why? Is it because he thinks he will lose? That's my best guess

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If an election is called before the Brexit deadline of 31st October, then Boris can frame it as being the “People versus Parliament”, and he’d probably clean up in the majority of Labour’s Leave constituencies.

Corbyn probably believes he can win a general election, but luckily for him, he’s being reined in by the likes of Keir Starmer etc.

https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1169296439136149509?s=20

[jonsie]

There is not a chance in hell that Labour will tae power with a party led by Jeremy Corbyn.

This is the sole reason for Boris calling for an election in the hope of clinging on to his own position.

[sheepdog]

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@TallTrees wrote:
The electorate were not properly prepared for the vote far too much rhetoric. It is my opinion this referendum was essential to get right as it seriously affects the country and everyone living in it. In business board rooms on an issue as serious as this would require a something like a 2/3rds majority. To move this country on such a close count is irresponsible. To ignore the voters of such a large number for remain is very tricky and if there are shortages, no work or a large number of unemployed and a downturn in the economy it is fuel for civil unrest.
Who better to know this than our Government therefore we will have a "fudge" and end up being out but in but not at the top table (very clever). Ah well the brits have had to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune before.

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Yet its not without modern precedent to get by on a small number in favour. You only have to look at the number of the Welsh '97 referendum resulted in a 0.6% for yes.  Seriously: 0.6% (6721 votes) which the number of invalid/spoiled votes would have effectively brought that down to less 0.45%. Even then, only half of the registered voters turned out so  you have to look at why the UK government did not legislate to have a decisive number based on these factors for future referendums. 

Then again, we'd still end up in the same situation where they decide to change laws to bypass laws they've passed already because it wasn't the expected result. 

[Mi-Amigo]

After the bill to stop "no deal" was passed by MPs through the three stages in the Commons, Boris Johnson put forward his motion to call a General Election. MPs voted 298 for an election on 15 Oct, with 56 votes against [Labour MPs abstained - according to BBC sources] - so failed to get two-thirds majority.

The Bill has gone to the Lords which may try and block it being passed by 100 amendments up for debate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49584907  

[jonsie]

Idiots in high places also having their own agenda!

[sheepdog]

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@jonsie wrote:

Labour will lose any general election whilst JC is leader. Most Labour supporters dislike him, no charisma and just shows why the electing public have zero trust in any party moving this country forward.

The Tories would probably get back in with the same outcome of no majority.

In the three years since the referendum, many of the older generation who voted to leave will have passed away and there is a whole new generation of 15-17 year olds eligible to vote and I'm of the opinion that if you took a poll of all voters now that they would vote to remain

I firmly believe that article 50 should be revoked but there seems to be little chance of that happening.

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That assumes three things:

1) The now 18-21 age group would be remember to register on the electoral roll

2) They could be bothered to go to a polling station

3) The 18-21 age group would actually vote to stay to replace the deceased leave votes.

Not to mention that the net difference between births and deaths has so many factors involved that it can't be said it could swing the vote either way (ONS has a lot of interesting data on births v deaths).