Reason for mandatory data bolt on

[Anonymous]

In the process of renewing my contract. Chatted with an advisor today regarding some why some of the phones have a data plan that cannot be removed (i.e. the lowest you can select is £3 Basic plan).

Welcome to O2 live chat. Someone will start chatting with you soon.
You're through to O2 Adviser.
O2 Adviser: Hi there. My name's O2 Adviser I am an O2 sales advisor, how may I help you today?
O2 Adviser: How are you today?
Me: Hi, I'm trying to upgrade my partners phone, on the upgrade page the Sony Ericsson Xperia Ray can only be chosen with a data bolt on included, we would like to know if it is possible to get this phone on a O2 200 Bonus tariff without a Data Bolt on? (This deal appears on the page for new customers)
Me: 24months
O2 Adviser: Hi Me, sadly the RAY works heavily on the web so you have to take a data bolt-on it cannot be removed you see.
O2 Adviser: But you can take the 100mb option to make it cheaper.
Me: Ok. It does appear on the main o2 site without a data bolt on, just not the upgrade site. I don't plan to use the internet connection (just WiFi when at home)
O2 Adviser: It does, but thats going to be corrected, as it needs web you see.
Me: Ok. Can you clarify what the phone will be using my data bolt on for, exactly?
Me: And how much would be available for my own use after the necessary data use has been subtracted?
O2 Adviser: Its Android, it runs alot of apps, that need web access you see.
Me: I don't plan to use those apps while away from home.
Me: I might get the HTC Wildfire S then, I don;t need a data bolt on for that one?
O2 Adviser: Yeah I was just about to suggest another phone..
O2 Adviser: The HTC Wildfire or the Galaxy ACE are best.
Me: Ok, so they don't run Android?
O2 Adviser: Yes they do, but not as many apps.. you see, the Ray is a newer phone.
O2 Adviser: Can I help with anything else at all today?
Me: Ok, so the apps on the Wildfire don't need web access but the ones on the Xperia do? Sorry, just a little confused
Me: Hello?
O2 Adviser: I'm here Me, they do use apps, some more than others.
O2 Adviser: The Ray as i mentioned as a newer phone so has more web based features.
O2 Adviser: .
Me: So if I don't want to go online I should choose the Wildfire S, because the RAY needs the internet more?
O2 Adviser: Can I help with anything else today?
O2 Adviser: Yes
Me: Ok thank you
Me: that's all
O2 Adviser: No worries at all.

Now, can anybody explain which apps it is exactly, that the Ray HAS to use, that require a data plan? And why the Ray NEEDS web, but some other (slightly cheaper) android phones do not?
I would have been perfectly content if they'd just told me "Sorry, that phone is only available on a higher rate tariff, because it costs more".

[Anonymous]

Its madness to try and use an Android handset without a data plan. Or rather very expensive.
If you do want to then you'll have to make sure you turn off Mobile Data, background data and syncing when you aren't connected to wi-fi.
But much of the functionality will be missing (eg email, urgent push updates, backup/sync of your settings/contacts/calendar etc, MMS is difficult with mobile data fully off, search functionality and so on)

[Anonymous]

Basically, because it's a high spec phone that's designed with the internet/internet based apps in mind and the majority of customers will use mobile data, o2 have built the tariff to cater to this.
The phone will work absolutely fine with the mobile data functions disabled and only using wifi.
Most of the higher end handsets are only available with a 'bundle' so to speak.
In all honesty you're best to have at least the 100mb of included data for when you're out and about, just in case.

[Anonymous]

I understand, but there are other reasons to get a newer/more expensive phone, than being able to connect to the net (camera, wifi etc). I currently use an android phone and only use network connection over WiFi. My main issue was that they told me that as it's android (and is 4 months newer than the wildfire) it HAS to use the net. When of course they also have phones on offer that are just as 'data dependent' that don't come with a data plan.
My initial reason for contacting them was just to check that there was no way I could get the phone without the data plan, as per their new contracts, so wasn't really looking for a reason until they started digging themselves a hole! I fully understand that they come with a £3+ additional data plan cost because in fact, the phone is more expensive so they will only provide it if you are paying a higher tariff. Of course, if the £3 was just to cover data use, and not the cost of the phone, then it would be optional, like on their cheaper phones.
Good job we normally have great service from O2 (and yes, I know I was being an awkward customer )

[Anonymous]

You can remove the data bolt-on after, just contact customer services. For the sake of £3 I'd have it on anyway because if your Wi-Fi drops then it reverts to mobile internet, also if you're own and need to check something then it's good to have.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for everyone's comments.
I wonder how we all managed to survive before mobile internet
All we wanted was to make sure we chose the phone that had the best camera on our chosen tariff :womanindifferent:

[Anonymous]

I think when you are saying they were digging themselves a hole and that the data is only there because the phone is more expensive you are missing the point.
All smartphones are designed to run on the web, in the way previous respondents have described. Until the recent tariff refresh in March it was perfectly possible to buy any android phone without data included in the tariff. The result was that hundreds of customers who thought they were saving a few quid by not having it as they "only used wi-fi" were swamping customer services complaining about huge bills in data charges because they didnt actually understand how their phone worked nearly as much as they though they did. The result was the decision (entirely correct in my view) that ALL smartphones MUST be sold only with data bolt ons to avoid this happening in future. The only phones O2 will sell you without data included are non-smartphones in which an Internet connection is only made when the owner selects it.
Anyway that was reasoning, not some clandestine way of jacking the price up as you seem to be interpreting it. I did work in customer services for some time and experienced these sort of complaints for myself (on a daily basis) so when o2 took this decision my own reaction was "at last!" rather than "sneaky sods". Not having at least the £3 data bolt on when using android will *always* result in a £30 data charge instead. I know which I'd rather have

[Anonymous]

Hi Beaufighter,
Thanks for your comments. I understand the decision - if customers are unaware of the fact that their phone will be using a data connection then they might get a shock when they get charged £30 - however, O2 DO still sell smart phones without a data bolt on - I went with the Wildfire in the end. Not that I have much experience in smart phones, but I would imagine that most have the option (like the HTC) when setting up the phone, NOT to use the mobile network for internet, only WiFi.
Just to confirm, my main point is I just wanted the best camera phone I could get, it just so happened that this was a smart phone - I do NOT plan or want to use the internet on the phone, but if I want a good phone there aren't any other options - all good modern phones have mobile internet intergrated with the system.

[Anonymous]

Ok, I notice you are right in that O2 don't list phones as "Smart phones" except the ones that have the data bolt on included. Which leads me to the question as to what o2 define as a smart phone? Perhaps I was wrong in thinking that you could easily switch off the mobile internet on any smart phone and have it function as a standard phone (like the HTC)?

[Anonymous]

Hi, yes, as I recall the definition non smartphones don't utilise data all by themselves, smartphones do. This isn't just mobile data but also notifications and location services (the latter of which played havoc with iphone roaming bills until apple fixed it in an update) and for all I know other functions too, so it's not surprising it can be a minefield for the unwary.
You're right about the camera option though, if you want a really top notch camera it does mean you are forced into the smartphone range, that's why I think adding the £3 option this year was a good move for these users.