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Anonymous
Posts: 0

Liquid damage

Good afternoon ancientferguson

I am delighted that O2 were able to help you, as you may guess from the username I actually work for ANOVO and look after all of the O2 repair issues.

I think that you possibly had your handset returned to your home address rather than collecting from store? I am not sure if the store made you aware, but we actually take a picture of the liquid damage at time of assesment and they are able to show you the image in store? As an accredited repairer we have to follow strict guidelines from the manufacturer around liquid damage and apply their rules to the units that we recieve, so if we see a unit such as yours, with a pink indicator, we have to follow procedures and declare the phone BER (beyond economical repair).

Liquid damage can cause any number of issues, the most common are keypad/trackball faults, speaker problems and screen problems. The liquid ingress, however slight, will affect various components and will possibly cause them to fail immediately or over a period of time; hence you camera and other functions still working.

Hopefully this information is useful, and as I said before I am delighted O2 were able to help you.

Kind regards
Anonymous
Posts: 0

Anovo Norwich

[ Edited ]
Please see link below to the image of the unit in question, this clearly shows the pink indicator to the bottom right

Sorry the image cant be posted direct into the forum

http://a05-b05.mypicturetown.com:80/P2P ... k5CsamMd.a
Anonymous
Posts: 0

Re: Liquid damage

Good afternoon ancientferguson
I am delighted that O2 were able to help you, as you may guess from the username I actually work for ANOVO and look after all of the O2 repair issues.
I think that you possibly had your handset returned to your home address rather than collecting from store? I am not sure if the store made you aware, but we actually take a picture of the liquid damage at time of assesment and they are able to show you the image in store? As an accredited repairer we have to follow strict guidelines from the manufacturer around liquid damage and apply their rules to the units that we recieve, so if we see a unit such as yours, with a pink indicator, we have to follow procedures and declare the phone BER (beyond economical repair).
Liquid damage can cause any number of issues, the most common are keypad/trackball faults, speaker problems and screen problems. The liquid ingress, however slight, will affect various components and will possibly cause them to fail immediately or over a period of time; hence you camera and other functions still working.
Hopefully this information is useful, and as I said before I am delighted O2 were able to help you.
Kind regards




The whole crux of the matter is this. My phone has not been damaged in any way by liquid!! My phone works PERFECTLY!! It worked after I spent ten minutes popping out a speaker and replacing it with another.


At this juncture, I remain unconvinced and somewhat bemused why you have suddenly popped up now with a photo. I have provided photos of every area I can access in my phone, where is this other indicator?

Since you claim to know who I am, perhaps can divulge who you are? You holding information on my identity makes me really keen to know who you are.

I note that you have never posted here before and this is a good opportunity for you to introduce yourself and to be useful to these boards.

I have posted this image directly to the board for you.

Anonymous
Posts: 0

Anovo Norwich

[ Edited ]
Please see link below to the image of the unit in question, this clearly shows the pink indicator to the bottom right
Sorry the image cant be posted direct into the forum
http://a05-b05.mypicturetown.com:80/P2P ... k5CsamMd.a


I have tried to pinpoint exactly the position your photo shows. I estimate that the following picture is roughly correct. I have placed your pink indicator on top of the black cover for illustration purposes. Please confirm before I open this phone up again. For the moment, I will assume I have a pinky, well hidden, but it is mine as I have not stripped the phone down this far... yet.

I am struggling to accept that you would spend so much time to disassemble a phone to search for an indicator, when all it needed was a speaker. As I said and cannot stress enough, this phone works fine and is not damaged.

If my position of the indicator is correct i.e. roughly central at the bottom of the screen, I cannot help believe that there will be a lot of BB's with pink indicators and no warranty and a lot of owners totally unaware.


Beyond economical repair ..... my jacksy! I bet there is a lot of people forking out cash, because, I assume, RIM is forcing you not to repair any phone that has a pink indicator... regardless of the problem. How many people have bought new Blackberries in the belief that there phone is jiggered? How many insurance companies are being fleeced?

This does not seem ethical.

The pinks are humidity indicators and that is ALL they are, .... surely a repair should be attempted before writing the phone off.

I would love to see what RIM had to say for themselves. I think it is time to write to invite them in.




Anonymous
Posts: 0

Anovo Norwich

I have a document at work which goes over all sorts of ways to tell if a handset is water damaged (unfortunately there's no way I could get it on here) and after comparing the pictures of the opened up blackberry I really can't see any evidence of what anovo reported.

At the end of the day though I really do think that when a phone goes in for repair they should first look at the problem a customer has reported and then at what's caused it - if it's deemed to be water damage then fair enough. In this case it was apparently squashed contacts through wear and tear but due to the jumping straight to the fact that apparently somewhere there is evidence of water damage this was completely overlooked.

In stark contrast to the service that ancientferguson has received I once returned a phone to carphone warehouse which several weeks after taking a swim in a vodka and coke decided to pack up. The liquid damage indicators were bright red. I was told in store that no damage cause by the liquid would be rectified however they'd still look at it. The phone came back working perfectly, no idea what the fault had been.
Anonymous
Posts: 0

Anovo Norwich

I have a document at work which goes over all sorts of ways to tell if a handset is water damaged (unfortunately there's no way I could get it on here) and after comparing the pictures of the opened up blackberry I really can't see any evidence of what anovo reported.
At the end of the day though I really do think that when a phone goes in for repair they should first look at the problem a customer has reported and then at what's caused it - if it's deemed to be water damage then fair enough. In this case it was apparently squashed contacts through wear and tear but due to the jumping straight to the fact that apparently somewhere there is evidence of water damage this was completely overlooked.
In stark contrast to the service that ancientferguson has received I once returned a phone to carphone warehouse which several weeks after taking a swim in a vodka and coke decided to pack up. The liquid damage indicators were bright red. I was told in store that no damage cause by the liquid would be rectified however they'd still look at it. The phone came back working perfectly, no idea what the fault had been.


I am happy to be slowly getting near the truth. If I had had a crashing, intermittent or display issue I wouldn't have pushed it and this thread would never have been created. I am happy it has been and I hope it will help others in the future.


What RIM and Anovo are clearly forgetting here is that this phone is my property as opposed to just another job number. RIM/Anovo scrapped my property on a maybe, a whim or a “could be
Anonymous
Posts: 0

Anovo Norwich

Good morning ancientferguson

Just to cover a few of your points;
as per my earlier post the picture i have shared has not suddenly popped up, all of the O2 stores have access to a web based solution called the repair tracking tool which details all aspects of the repair and in the case of BER units a photo detailing the issue.

Neither O2 or ANOVO set the guidelines around liquid damage, these criteria are set by the OEM, as an accredited repairer our instructions are very clear and we have to follow them. Any sign of corrosion due to liquid ingress or a triggered indicator means we have to declare a unit BER, in this instance replacing the speaker may have cured the current fault but there is a high chance that further failures would occur, regardless of this our accreditation means that we cannot attempt a repair on a phone with liquid damage.

We dont take a phone apart to find signs of liquid damage, we take a phone apart to find the cause of the problem, a speaker issue could be the result of any number of faults from software to component failure or in this case liquid ingress. As a business we only get paid if we repair a unit so there is absolutely no incentive to declare a phone BER!!

Liquid damage affects different phones in many different ways, some times it is instant failure of all functionality other times a phone will work normally for the rest of its life, the key point is that the OEM judges this unit to be customer damaged due to liquid ingress and this invalidates the warranty so the unit is then judged to be BER. it is important to note that one of the major drivers around this is safety, electronic components, electricity and water do not mix so there is a risk that a liquid damaged unit, if charged can overheat and in the worst case scenario could catch fire, this is clearly very rare but does happen.

In terms of me attempting to humour you, I am sorry you feel that is the case but you are completely wrong, i am pleased that O2 have been able to help you; we deal with most of the networks and O2 always go the extra mile, please remember that your handset was classed as customer damage due to the liquid ingress, O2 did not have to sort out a replacement so the fact that they did speaks volumes about their commitment to customer service. Had your phone been incorrectly diagnosed i would, of course, have apologised to you; the issue here is that you were unhappy with the correct diagnosis which i fully understand.

Hopefully now you can see that we don't 'scrap a phone on a whim', whilst we process hundres of thousands of handsets per year our team here is fully aware that every single one belongs to a customer, unfortuantely accidental customer damage occurs and it is the most emotive problem that we deal with as part of the overall repair operation, hence the reason it has become a greater area of focus and the O2 customer care team attempts to call each customer who is affected by this to offer alternative solutions.

If you would like me to contact you offline i would be delighted to do so.

Kind regards

Jonathon
Anonymous
Posts: 0

Anovo Norwich

Good morning ancientferguson
Just to cover a few of your points;
as per my earlier post the picture i have shared has not suddenly popped up, all of the O2 stores have access to a web based solution called the repair tracking tool which details all aspects of the repair and in the case of BER units a photo detailing the issue.
Neither O2 or ANOVO set the guidelines around liquid damage, these criteria are set by the OEM, as an accredited repairer our instructions are very clear and we have to follow them. Any sign of corrosion due to liquid ingress or a triggered indicator means we have to declare a unit BER, in this instance replacing the speaker may have cured the current fault but there is a high chance that further failures would occur, regardless of this our accreditation means that we cannot attempt a repair on a phone with liquid damage.
We dont take a phone apart to find signs of liquid damage, we take a phone apart to find the cause of the problem, a speaker issue could be the result of any number of faults from software to component failure or in this case liquid ingress. As a business we only get paid if we repair a unit so there is absolutely no incentive to declare a phone BER!!
Liquid damage affects different phones in many different ways, some times it is instant failure of all functionality other times a phone will work normally for the rest of its life, the key point is that the OEM judges this unit to be customer damaged due to liquid ingress and this invalidates the warranty so the unit is then judged to be BER. it is important to note that one of the major drivers around this is safety, electronic components, electricity and water do not mix so there is a risk that a liquid damaged unit, if charged can overheat and in the worst case scenario could catch fire, this is clearly very rare but does happen.
In terms of me attempting to humour you, I am sorry you feel that is the case but you are completely wrong, i am pleased that O2 have been able to help you; we deal with most of the networks and O2 always go the extra mile, please remember that your handset was classed as customer damage due to the liquid ingress, O2 did not have to sort out a replacement so the fact that they did speaks volumes about their commitment to customer service. Had your phone been incorrectly diagnosed i would, of course, have apologised to you; the issue here is that you were unhappy with the correct diagnosis which i fully understand.
Hopefully now you can see that we don't 'scrap a phone on a whim', whilst we process hundres of thousands of handsets per year our team here is fully aware that every single one belongs to a customer, unfortuantely accidental customer damage occurs and it is the most emotive problem that we deal with as part of the overall repair operation, hence the reason it has become a greater area of focus and the O2 customer care team attempts to call each customer who is affected by this to offer alternative solutions.
If you would like me to contact you offline i would be delighted to do so.
Kind regards
Jonathon



My speaker was not working because the speaker had malfucntioned. This was the only correct diagnosis. Had you not had these ridiculous conditions imposed on you, your engineer would have done exactly what I did to effect a full repair.

No matter what diplomatic slant you put on this, my phone has not been damaged beyond economical repair by liquid.

Once again you are talking about possibilities instead of dealing with the facts. The contributors to these boards, from what I have seen, are not easily fooled and they are most likely thinking the way I do.

If you could answer me a simple question with a one word, yes or no answer, devoid of impressive political speak, I would be very much obliged.

Question: If your engineer had replaced my £3.90 speaker, as was the reported problem, would my phone be fully functional? Yes or No?

O2 will soon have the phone, they can test it until there heart is content.


Incidentally, I genuinely appreciate your time.
Anonymous
Posts: 0

Anovo Norwich

Again i fully understand your frustration.

To respond to your question
Question: If your engineer had replaced my £3.90 speaker, as was the reported problem, would my phone be fully functional? Yes or No?

If our contractual obligations had allowed us to replace the speaker it MAY have cured the problem short term, other symptoms MAY have occured or the fix MAY have failed in the future, this is the whole problem with liquid damage, it affects different components in different ways and as most components are integrated into the main board of the unit they can't simply be swapped out.

There isn't a yes or no answer I am afraid, Yes you swapped the speaker and it works for now but factual experience tells us that this will generally not last, we see thousands of liquid damaged units each year all at different stages throughout the failure life cycle, the only constant is that they are classed as BER by the OEM because it is no longer possible to guarantee that the product will perform as it should and that is the whole crux of the issue; if a customer introduces moisture to a handset, accidentally or otherwise, the OEM can no longer be held accountable for the phone.

Again, not want you want to hear i know but that is the reality of the situation.
Anonymous
Posts: 0

Anovo Norwich

Not to sound like I am passing the buck but we simply do not have that option, the rules around are accreditation are very clear.
in terms of a 'short term fix' my personal thoughts are that this would actually create more problems and greater customer frustration, in our experience this fix (on a liquid damaged unit) would eventually fail and/or other symptoms would arise, this could be 1 day later or 1 month later, such is the unpredictable nature of liquid ingress, whilst you as an individual customer may be happy to pay for this repair (as you would have to because the unit is out of warranty)the vast majority of people wouldnt be if the handset fails days later.

The problem with liquid damage is that even the best technician can't see inside a component fixed to the main board so even if there is no external corrosion this doesnt guarantee that the component is unaffected.

The guidelines are very clear, any indication of corrosion or colour change on indicators and the unit has to be judged BER for customer damage. To put it another way, the OEMS view is that you cant be a little bit pregnant!