Challenge to cancellation policy

[Anonymous]

Having been referred to the Terms & Conditions posted at http://www.o2.co.uk/termsandconditions/iphone I believe that there are good grounds for mounting a challenge to o2's stated policy as regards cancellation charges.

In particular, one may at one's own election to reduce the subscription rate I find it remarkable that o2 assert that this should not be factored into the cancellation charge. By way of illustration, say that I am on the £45 plan (which until now I was - I have moved down a band in protest), and have 10 months to run on my contract. Under o2's policy my cancellation charge is £450. If I exercise my rights under the contract to move down one tariff a month until I am on the minimum tariff, I can reduce this to 1 month x £35 plus 9 months x £30 = £305.

I would like to garner some support for mounting an action. There are a number of ways to approach how to take this forward and which to take depends somewhat on how many people are prepared to commit their time (and potentially finances) to doing so (I would not be collecting money from anyone, rather more likely they would be paying their own court fees/costs of communication with Ofcom).

If you are interested in taking this approach would you please pm me.

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I have tried over the last 11 days to broach this with o2 but they will not engage properly with the issue.

Thanks

[Anonymous]

This might be the case, and you may well get away with it legally, but if you intend to get a new contract to get the 3Gs you will almost definatly find that O2 will refuse to give you a contract.

[Anonymous]

I don't think that would go down terribly well with Ofcom - if the legal challenge is successful o2 would be on pretty tenuous ground refusing to enter into a further contract with me! If it's unsuccessful, I don't cancel and o2 don't have a contractual right to terminate...

[Anonymous]

Hang on, if I understand what was said, is the OP saying there is nothing in the agreement that says you have to pay term fees?

"8.2 This Agreement may be ended either by you or us giving at least 30 days' written notice, in accordance with paragraph 7 of the General Terms. You must pay all Charges incurred during the Agreement.

8.3 If this Agreement is ended during the Minimum Period, you must pay us the monthly subscription charges up to the end of that Minimum Period. This does not apply if you end the Agreement for the reasons in paragraph 8.4."

Or is that term fees are raised on the current tariff whereas if they lowered down they could be paying less term fees?

[Anonymous]

Hi

I must admit that I hadn't initially spotted the Airtime Terms but only the Pay Monthly Tariff Terms (boo me), so thank you for pointing that out. I should note that in 11 days correspondence with o2 I haven't been directed specifically to the Airtime Terms, but I have requested the original t's & c's that I signed with o2 to see what's in there (not yet received).

I don't think it vitiates the arguments set out in my original post (now amended) entirely though. It should, at least from a consumer relations (or fairness) point of view, make little difference to the argument on what rate of subscription you pay out at: there is nothing in the contract (having now skimmed both the Pay Monthly Tariff Terms and the Airtime Terms, and assuming both sets are incorporated) locking the customer into a single rate. That is clearly not a contractual point, rather a point for Ofcom, but I'll think more on how to phrase that more formally. I do also think that a claim might lie under the UTCCR (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19992083.htm), and if that is the case the proper cancellation rate is the loss of profit on the contract, which will be significantly lower.

I think there may also be mileage in assessing how clearly the terms are set out in the actual contract signed - we'll wait to see what comes my way.

So, in summary, you're right that it's not as cut-and-dry as I first suggested, though there is still a good argument to be had to reduce the cancellation charge. On that basis, I intend to proceed with my initial plan.

[Anonymous]

By way of illustration, say that I am on the £45 plan (which until now I was - I have moved down a band in protest), and have 10 months to run on my contract. Under o2's policy my cancellation charge is £450. If I exercise my rights under the contract to move down one tariff a month until I am on the minimum tariff, I can reduce this to 1 month x £35 plus 9 months x £30 = £305.

I'm on the same tariff and they quoted me £312 with just six months contract left to run. Fools. I was even willing to sign up for 24 months, because in my situation my iPhone 3G was dunked into a drink and so only works if I have headphones plugged in! I want an upgrade for usability and won't mind not being able to upgrade annually, but I said I would take out insurance this time having learned a lesson.

I told them to go sing, as I suspect most of us did, while making sure they knew they'd destroyed their business relationship to this one customer at least. Do they make these numbers up? But you're right, you can reduce your monthly tariff and I'm going to do that today. Even if it's only a tenner, it's in my pocket for once and not O2's bloated bank balance.

[Anonymous]

People keep saying how if o2 let them up upgrade now they'd sign up to a 24 month contract. But what happens when a new phone comes out in 12 months? You'll want the same.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you can do anything with it if you look at the terms and condition of the O2 T&C. It is quite well written about it is not a water tight situation though.

[Anonymous]

I'm back
by cancellation policy2 on Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:59 pm Hi, despite the new username I'm the OP - my original account has disappeared (I can no longer log in and when I click on the forgotten password link and enter my username and email address the system claims no such account is linked with that email address. Needless to say I haven't forgotten my password, and have the email sent to confirm it!)

I'm a bit tied up with work so haven't posted for a bit but, as an update, I spoke to a named individual at o2 complaints review service, who explained that cancellation charges are calculated by taking your original subscription rate and multiplying that by the number of remaining months on your contract. She said that is the case irrespective of whether you are on a lower tariff when you cancel (I wonder what happens if you're on a higher tariff...), which is a direct contradiction of what I had been told by normal customer services. I asked her to confirm this by email but, notwithstanding that she did email, she failed to do so. I chased by email (23 June) and still nothing. o2 has also failed to provide me with a copy of the t's and c's that I signed.

I continue to work on it, time permitting. I am becoming increasingly determined to escalate this as o2 fails to respond in anything like a meaningful way (eg by simply confirming the cancellation formula, despite promising to do so!).

[Anonymous]

You entered into a contract at £x a month so that's what you and O2 are contracted at - regardless of if you now lower your monthly payments.

The original contract still stands - it is only the contents of the contract which has altered not the original contract so you can try to fight it but it seems more fool you for getting a contract you either can't now afford or simply don't like the details of.

No-one to blame but yourself so go ahead with your law suit or whatever it is you're planning but do you really think you're the first to be unhappy with their choice and try to alter it in this manner? Think on sunshine.