topic Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware in Off-Topic

Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Breanna — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 09:07:30 GMT

I was doing a bit of casual, late night weird reading last night and came upon this interesting little titbit from Atlas Obscura.

A predecessor to the pies we love today, pastry coffyns were hard boxes made of dough used to hold and preserve food. Basically they were so hard and tasteless to be inedible but it does sound like a great biodegradable food storage solution!

Apparently lamprey (look that up if you want to have nightmares) was a favourite to be sealed inside the pastry box with mint, parsley, cinnamon, ginger, saffron, and ground almonds. And after it was cooked, the coffin would be cut open and the juices drained out to make sauce. It sounds...slimy.

Of course, in true aristocratic excess, some took it a bit further by ordering huge pastry coffins that could accommodate things like birds, frogs, and even small people-- painted with mercury and lead for that *extra special* touch.

I'll be honest, I always wondered about the nursery rhyme where the "four and twenty blackbirds" get baked in a pie. It's all adding up now...

Thankfully this horrifying moment in food history has led us to the short crust pastry and pie as we know it today. I think I'll skip the peacock and tortoise and go for apple though.

Pie anyone?

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Enlli — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 10:23:07 GMT

Done 15c Living History for over 30 years. We often cook food that way. I've done half chickens and they keep really well!

However, these days we eat the crusts, back then it was just the contents

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Breanna — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 10:27:53 GMT

Chicken sounds so much more appetizing than lamprey!

I really enjoy these food history sort of things. In my country we went from everything being preserved in salt to adding chemicals to preserve things and basically it's still the same now. We skipped this whole bit!

So how do you cook the chicken inside without burning the whole outside bit?

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Enlli — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 11:00:03 GMT

Using Coffins was really the preserve of the rich. The poor could not sacrifice the flour

The trick is to really encase the contents in the flour paste and make it thick, as if it cracks then it defeats the purpose.

Once encased it can be cooked on a fire or in an oven. It does not matter if the pastry burns. It is the pastry that regulates the heat and stops the contents from burning

The poor did a similar thing encasing food in clay

If you don't like lamprey then stay clear of jellied eels!

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

TallTrees — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 11:38:32 GMT

Hi @Breanna

That is truly stomach churning. The Blackbirds! I read it was the pie steam removers called "blackbirds"

Fortunately they definitely like this nowadays

I like food and nursery rhymes.

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Cleoriff — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 12:59:47 GMT

@Breanna

The lampreys you talk about are completely different, depending where they come from.

Some are very eel like and others look like fish.

I have read about Henry 1st who loved these pies.

Apparently our late Queen Elizabeth enjoyed these pies

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Breanna — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 13:06:40 GMT

Oh wow! Just gave that a google and it seems there was a big lamprey pie tradition for the Queen's jubilees.

I had no idea!

Also love the BBC's description of the lamprey: "Lampreys are an ancient and primitive group of jawless vertebrates and have long, eel-like bodies that lack scales." Lovely.

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

TallTrees — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 13:15:57 GMT

Good grief @Cleoriff

That couldn't be a worse look 🤢

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Enlli — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 13:32:13 GMT

Whatever you cook don't do Conger Eel. Even sliced and fried the bones get into your teeth. I speak from experience.

Oh, and squirrel is not worth the effort!

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Cleoriff — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 13:35:03 GMT

@TallTrees wrote:
Good grief @Cleoriff
That couldn't be a worse look 🤢

Pretty much the same as a Stargazy pie @TallTrees

Made in Cornwall out of pilchards.

Apparently they stick the fishheads out of the pastry to appear as if they are 'gazing at the stars' UGH!

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Breanna — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 13:41:15 GMT

@Enlli

Nothing like having dinner in slow motion so you don't get a bone stuck in your throat!

We always had an abundance of squirrel stew in late winter as it was never the first choice to grab from the chest freezer. Of course, my father left the processing of squirrel and fish to the kids-- too tedious for his tastes.

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Breanna — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 13:41:38 GMT

@Cleoriff @TallTrees

That reminds me of a short story by Neil Gaiman - Sunbird - about a secret club that makes some truly wild dishes.

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

TallTrees — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 13:50:02 GMT

No I don't think I would ever eat "eel" @Enlli

you are very brave. Squirrel best for the Fox 😁

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

TallTrees — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 14:03:40 GMT

Swan? Anyone

@Breanna @Cleoriff @Enlli

This was also a fav dish for the Kings and Queens

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Breanna — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 14:13:12 GMT

Nooo way. And they made the swan watch 😂 oh dear oh dear.

That reminds me of a time someone trapped (and later admitted to eating) a local black swan where I lived in China. It was quite the scandal!

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

sheepdog — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 17:14:44 GMT

@Breanna wrote:
I was doing a bit of casual, late night weird reading last night and came upon this interesting little titbit from Atlas Obscura.

A predecessor to the pies we love today, pastry coffyns were hard boxes made of dough used to hold and preserve food. Basically they were so hard and tasteless to be inedible but it does sound like a great biodegradable food storage solution!

Apparently lamprey (look that up if you want to have nightmares) was a favourite to be sealed inside the pastry box with mint, parsley, cinnamon, ginger, saffron, and ground almonds. And after it was cooked, the coffin would be cut open and the juices drained out to make sauce. It sounds...slimy.

Of course, in true aristocratic excess, some took it a bit further by ordering huge pastry coffins that could accommodate things like birds, frogs, and even small people-- painted with mercury and lead for that *extra special* touch.

I'll be honest, I always wondered about the nursery rhyme where the "four and twenty blackbirds" get baked in a pie. It's all adding up now...

Thankfully this horrifying moment in food history has led us to the short crust pastry and pie as we know it today. I think I'll skip the peacock and tortoise and go for apple though.

Pie anyone?

I no longer want to eat a Greggs Steakbake 🤣

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Enlli — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 17:21:01 GMT

Peacock tastes fine. (Although the one we had was a pea hen.

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Breanna — Wed, 26 Oct 2022 07:32:18 GMT

@sheepdog The verdict is still out on Greggs steak bake for me. Tried it and it felt like

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Breanna — Wed, 26 Oct 2022 07:38:39 GMT

Weirdest thing you've ever eaten @Enlli?

Mine is definitely cicada pupae. Hated it even more than I thought I would 😂

Century eggs are pretty funky too but they have their time and place.

Re: Pastry Coffins, The Medieval Tupperware

Cleoriff — Wed, 26 Oct 2022 08:08:01 GMT

@Breanna

You should watch I'm a Celebrity, Get me Out Of Here, 12 'celebs' are taken to the jungle in Australia. They undergo tasks to win stars for food for camp. Some of the eating tasks are horrendous. Kangaroo anus, Animals eyes, Maggots, Vomit fruit, 100 year old eggs. Animal testicles etc etc.

It starts in November. I can't wait. 😂