topic Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call in Discussions & Feedback

Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 23:10:31 GMT

A friend of mine got a bit of a shock the other week to find a telemarketing call from a Vodafone affiliate (Aquira, Glasgow number 01414194380) which she rejected as she didn't recognise the number - and her Android phone log confirms she did - resulted in a massive bill to HER from O2. I forget the amount but I think it was over £100 and the call lasted many hours according to O2.

I took a photo of the the log on her phone and sent it to O2, but they are adamant SHE made the call and are refusing to refund.

I called the number myself and it cycles endlessly around Aquira's IVR without ever disconnecting - so if you WERE unfortunate enough to dial it back by mistake, I can understand how such a massive bill could rack up. But there is simply no evidence that happened. I then found two more reports on the net relating to the SAME issue with calls from the SAME Glasgow number, and a third case which sounds similar.

http://community.o2.co.uk/t5/Pay-Monthly-and-Pay-Go/311-bill-not-my-fault/td-p/685943
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/community/forums/t/charged-for-phone-calls-that-phoned-me-58418.aspx

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-2441376/Why-wont-BT-remove-89-charge-18-hour-phone-I-didnt-make.html

So my question is, does anyone out there know under what technical circumstances or fault could this happen? In theory it doesn't seem possible but it obviously is.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 05:40:24 GMT

Hi YorkshireMidge and Welcome to the Community Forum,

I'm sorry to hear of your friends situation.

If the call is showing to O2 then they will charge for the call and I appreciate you taking the picture ,but call logs can be deleted in the phone so perhaps that's why O2 are refuting.

Your friend can make their situation known here http://www.o2.co.uk/how-to-complain/complain officially for this to be further investigated.

They should also try to contact the company for reimbursement. I've checked that number via a Google Search and this does support your claim that it is connected to a Company connected to Vodaphone. May be a long shot but you could make them aware of the situation. They may / may not become involved.

They also can use http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/ to make a complaint and try to get reimbursement.

Some phones have a Call and Texting Blocking Facility. If your friends phone has this then ask them to add that number to the list so they receive no more calls from them and cannot then make an outbound call to them.

Let us know how you get on.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:23:15 GMT

Thanks for your reply - it is already a complaint with O2. Next step is the Ombudsman I guess.

I did actually approach Vodafone when it happened (pointing out the other two cases involving the same number) but they refused to accept any responsibility as it is O2 raising the charge.

The point about log manipulation is fair enough - if it wasn't for the fact that my friend hasn't had a smartphone for long and didn't know where to find it (O2 talked her through having a look initially). Besides, had she made a mistake herself, she's the sort of fine upstanding citizen who would have admitted it and talked nicely to them to try and get a refund!

The company are still making unsolicited calls in spite of Vodafone saying they would take her off the list, and she's understandably concerned that whatever happened, could happen again. Though on balance, Aquira are a persistent phone pest judging by reports, so if it was a widespread issue, I'm sure it would be equally widely reported. O2 are saying they can't block the number either - so might have to look into whether there is an app to do this.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:25:31 GMT

Hi

You're welcome and I hope your friend finds a speedy resolution.

As I say some phones have the blocking facility built in via their own software. If you let us know which they have we can advise further.

Good luck.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:29:31 GMT

How on earth can this be allowed too happen?

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Cleoriff — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:45:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
How on earth can this be allowed too happen?

I am just wondering whether this is similar to the sort of thing that can happen with a landline...in that the spammer does not actually 'end call'....so every time you try and call out you are still logged on to a premium rate number?....

Having said that, I have just realised that the ops friend actually didn't initiate the call...it was a call she received....

However.. it was a thought and maybe someone far more technically more astute than me could maybe confirm whether such a glitch, could in fact, mean that this call was charging her?...

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

anticpated — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:39:20 GMT

I think that's a cop-out as you as a customer have no control over incoming calls. O2 can view on your account who you have called and how long for. The reason for such high charges as I have been lead to believe as calls are rerouted worldwide to justify their high-cost and the operator gets a cut from the profit.

Luckily I have not had this happen to me however I will now be adding that telephone number to my reject list.

On a landline, this sort of practice is more notorious; such as instead of leaving a message on your machine they will play high-pitched data flow (sounds like a facsimile machine) for a long time. Another trick is if you have withheld numbers blocked, by rerouting through other networks by lifting the handset you effectively unblock your number.

As I am no expert on this I can't give any information on the advanced communcations they use however I bet it's something llike VOiP so tracking down information on people is harder to do.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:34:28 GMT

Good idea anticpated

Number added too.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:45:43 GMT

I don't think there is anything fraudulent going on. The company making the call is legit (as far as this type of business can ever be considered to be!). It isn't a premium rate number either - it's a national rate.

My friend has just confirmed that the "call" according to O2 was 7hrs 39 minutes long (which also begs the question whether a smartphone battery would have lasted that long if it had been a real call) and 463 minutes were outside her inclusive minutes, which are then charged at 40p/minute. Result = eyewatering bill.

O2 did send an e-mail after the event, to advise they had noted the abnormal spend - but it's a bit late then.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:51:42 GMT

Smartphones if on a decent battery level can sustain a call that long.

However a typical user would have used their phone within that kind of time frame either so make a call, send a text or use the net.

Did your friend not use their phone in those 7 hours ?

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Bambino — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:09:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I don't think there is anything fraudulent going on. The company making the call is legit (as far as this type of business can ever be considered to be!). It isn't a premium rate number either - it's a national rate.

My friend has just confirmed that the "call" according to O2 was 7hrs 39 minutes long (which also begs the question whether a smartphone battery would have lasted that long if it had been a real call) and 463 minutes were outside her inclusive minutes, which are then charged at 40p/minute. Result = eyewatering bill.

O2 did send an e-mail after the event, to advise they had noted the abnormal spend - but it's a bit late then.

Of course it's fraud if your friend is being charged for a call they said they didn't make.

Apart from a phone's battery life, I've never made a single call in my life that lasted for 7 hours and 39 minutes. Has anyone?

You said in your original post that you called the number in question. Were you charged an exorbitant amount? How did you end the call?

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:15:16 GMT

PS - it seems O2 will not set any sort of limit to protect their customers, unlike T-Mobile who will drop a call after 4hrs to protect their customers against "pocket dialling".

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:29:20 GMT

Hi

That's correct O2 won't cap texts or minutes in the Uk but do stop data after the allowance is exhausted on Contract Accounts.

Maybe they should have some type of service you mention and or set an account cost limit so a person can say cannot over £20 without having to ring customer services or do something in their myo2.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:31:39 GMT

@Bambino. Charging for a call you didn't make is potentially an error. It's only fraud if the perpetrator set out to do it deliberately. As there is no revenue share on a national rate number, I see no motive, and only O2 are going to gain from this.

The exorbitant charge is fully accounted for in the 40p/min charge O2 level outside tariff and the duration they say the call existed for.

The test call I made was from a landline - and I just left it a number of minutes until I was satisfied it would cycle around indefinitely, then I just hung up and the call fully cleared down.

Personally, I don't think an automated answering system should be allowed to cycle round indefinitely anyway - but I have yet to find any regulations that prevent it.

Most IVR systems I have come across clear the call down at THEIR end or put you through to a human, if you don't press any button.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Cleoriff — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:36:12 GMT

I have to agree with Bambino. It iS fraud if you or your friend are being charged for a call they didnt make. O2 are in pocket....your friend is not...

You clearly stated the call was NOT made in error...therefore someone is perpetuating fraud...

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Bambino — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:42:12 GMT

Just out of curiosity, YorkshireMidge, you said your friend rejected the call. Did they answer and then hang up or did they just not accept the call?

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:49:43 GMT

@Anonymous

Her mobile is relatively lightly used - call a day (if that). She is retired and mobile reception in her flat isn't good at the best of times so she tends to use the land line.

On her phone log, the next entry after the rejected call was to 21202 the following morning to check her allowance after receiving the O2 e-mail over night. The rejected call is timed at 12:16 the previous day.

She has asked O2 to provide the precise timings of the call they allege she made, so they can be compared.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:56:39 GMT

Hi

I was Not questioning anything and I do submit everyone's usage pattern is different.

As asked by Bambino did your friend accept the incoming call and then press the end key or see the incoming call and just press the end key to reject it ?

I would still Suggest your friend uses the complaint link I added to further the issue.

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 12:03:58 GMT

@Bambino

It was rejected - she doesn't tend to accept calls from unknown callers (and I notice rejected another tele-pest number a couple of days previous)

Re: Massive O2 call charge against a REJECTED telemarketing call

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 12:05:57 GMT

It's weird that no connection was then opened up from the company to the end user ~ your friend so no call was left open.

It does appear to be an accidental dial somehow from the end user back to the rejected call. 😞