topic Re: O2 Data/Privacy in Discussions & Feedback

O2 Data/Privacy

ewanrw — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:29:01 GMT

This is bound to annoy a few people...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19882647

Been happening with Vodafone customers for years - sell data to Tom Tom and other GPS companies so your GPS knows what traffic conditions are like.

ewan

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

perksie — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:51:51 GMT

Annoying yes, but I can't see any gain for Telefonica either.

Knowing that an anonymous mobile user has gone from London to a shop in Surrey is hardly going to be useful, or am I missing something here?

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Liquid — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:59:22 GMT

Richard Dodd, spokesman for the British Retail Consortium, told the BBC: "A teenage fashion chain might find it useful to know when and where teenage girls tend to congregate around town.

Just me or wouldnt tracking teenage girls be illegal?

"There's no disclosure of personal information at all," the spokesman said, defending the decision.

And to make it useful to people wanting to buy the data they'd have to release gender age and location data. Hardly not personal data or am I missing somthing?

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

perksie — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:59:23 GMT

I guess this one's going to run and run and run....................

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

jonsie — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:11:10 GMT

We are tracked most everywhere we go now either by car, bus or train or just strolling through town. Criminal elements are already tracked by mobile, seems the norm nowadays.

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Liquid — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:38:25 GMT

I'm going to have to make a tin foil hat for my phone as well now:(

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

perksie — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 16:01:16 GMT

Looks like it, even the local taxi firm won't be able to find you then!:smileyhappy:

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 17:11:28 GMT

I believe from what I know about it to be a way of monetising currently unused data such as shopping transactions done on mobiles to things like mobile web browsing habits.

All personal data is taken out, and the data presented is more of a trend analysis, such as "10% of 25-34 year old men shop at Topman" (example). It would help marketing firms target adverts to specific demographics.

The kind of anonymous data gathering is using industry-standard protocols similar to those used for Census information etc.

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:36:42 GMT

This should be totally illegal. On most forms on the net, you check a box if you don't want to participate in having your information sent "anonymously" to marketing people. I wonder how much of this is actually anonymous and how much is so they can spam your email inbox.

I am not interested in having my data sent to marketing people whether it's anonymous or not. What I do on the internet is my own PRIVATE concern and none of anybody else's. If these marketing people want their data, do it the old fashioned way and send out some researchers to ask questions. Or maybe they are not getting results because people prefer to have some privacy in their lives?

However, I do think someone with some legal background should take a look into the Human Rights charter because I do believe that this contravenes a few of the articles dealing with personal privacy since you are not asked whether or not you agree to participate.

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Liquid — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:53:33 GMT

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/guidance_index/~/media/documents/library/Data_Protection/Practical_application/BUYING_AND_SELLING_CUSTOMER_DATABASES_V2.ashx

First paragraph deems this practise is perfectly legal. It's all stated in the T&Cs that everyone has to "read" before they complete the purchase.

Nothing illegal about it sorry.

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Bambino — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 23:42:11 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
This should be totally illegal. On most forms on the net, you check a box if you don't want to participate in having your information sent "anonymously" to marketing people. I wonder how much of this is actually anonymous and how much is so they can spam your email inbox.

I am not interested in having my data sent to marketing people whether it's anonymous or not. What I do on the internet is my own PRIVATE concern and none of anybody else's. If these marketing people want their data, do it the old fashioned way and send out some researchers to ask questions. Or maybe they are not getting results because people prefer to have some privacy in their lives?

However, I do think someone with some legal background should take a look into the Human Rights charter because I do believe that this contravenes a few of the articles dealing with personal privacy since you are not asked whether or not you agree to participate.

Do you honestly believe that what you do online is private and you're not being tracked by every site you visit? You are very naive if you think that.

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Liquid — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 00:07:15 GMT

Human charter has nothing to do with these laws.

I'm going to cite article 26 for anyone who believes that clicking accept on the T&Cs actually means you don't have to abide by them or that you don't have a reason to read them:)

As long as data remains anonymous (so no targeted ads) I'm happy with it. Just another way of being tracked digitally.

Tin foil hats at the ready:)

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

jonsie — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 00:12:22 GMT

@Liquid wrote:

Tin foil hats at the ready:)

It's a hermit's life for me and a cloak of anonymity!:smileywink:

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Anonymous — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 01:42:54 GMT

@Liquid wrote:
http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/guidance_index/~/media/documents/library/Data_Protection/Practical_application/BUYING_AND_SELLING_CUSTOMER_DATABASES_V2.ashx

First paragraph deems this practise is perfectly legal. It's all stated in the T&Cs that everyone has to "read" before they complete the purchase.

Nothing illegal about it sorry.

Try again:

"Companies regularly flaunt the laws, collecting and disseminating personal information. In the United States, even with the long-standing existence of a law on consumer credit information, companies still make extensive use of such information for marketing purposes."

"Privacy of communications, which covers the security and privacy of mail, telephones, email and other forms of communication"

"The 1950 Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, [fn 25] Article 8 states:

No-one should be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks on his honour or reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interferences or attacks."

"The Council of Europe's 1981 Convention for the Protection of Individuals with regard to the Automatic Processing of Personal Data [fn 35] and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development's Guidelines Governing the Protection of Privacy and Transborder Data Flows of Personal Data [fn 36] articulate specific rules covering the handling of electronic data.

The expression of data protection in various declarations and laws varies only by degrees. All require that personal information must be:

obtained fairly and lawfully;
used only for the original specified purpose;
adequate, relevant and not excessive to purpose;
accurate and up to date; and
destroyed after its purpose is completed."

Excerpts from : http://gilc.org/privacy/survey/intro.html

So, not only is it illegal under the Human Rights charter since it is an invasion of privacy, it is illegal under the Data Protection Act as it is not data that is "used only for the original specified purpose", that purpose being to search for an item from a store.

This is nothing short of electronic stalking. If someone followed you everywhere you went in town and noted what shops you visited and what items you bought, you'd be calling the cops to have them arrested for stalking. Why is this any different just because it is electronic?

What people don't seem to grasp is that many things that erode our freedoms and privacy do so in small stages. Like eating a biscuit one crumb at a time, eventually the biscuit will be gone. Allow it to happen because it's "only a minor thing" and the next "minor thing" will happen and the next and the next. If they did it all in one move, there would be a civil war so they do it in small steps so it doesn't worry people too much with each step. Eventually, 20 years down the line, your kids could all have phones tapped, everything they do on the internet, even their emails recorded and saved on disk somewhere.

Shops have computerised stock control nowadays, if they must check on what's being sold, what is wrong with marketing comanies distributing that information? They don't because companies would fight against it as an invasion of their privacy and since they have better lawyers than we can afford, the marketing companies stay well clear of that domain.

For the sake of your kids and grand kids... WAKE UP! Don't let them nibble away at your rights until you have nothing left. IT IS NOT A MINOR THING.

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Bambino — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:51:22 GMT

This is O2's privacy policy:

http://www.o2.co.uk/termsandconditions/privacy-policy

You agreed to it when you took out your contract or got your Pay and Go from O2. I would imagine that every network provider has a similarly worded policy. If you can find a provider that doesn't set out those Terms and Conditions, let us know.

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

perksie — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:00:49 GMT

@tryst

You seem determined to beat your head against the wall over this, we have seen all these arguments many times.

Eventually you will accept that you are wrong and go and get on with your life.

Barrack room lawyers tend to get a bit wearing after a while..........

You always have the choice not to do business with a company whose terms you are not happy with.

Re: O2 Data/Privacy

Liquid — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:50:50 GMT

Just to retort;)

No-one should be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks on his honour or reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interferences or attacks."

You quoted this arbitrary means random or at a whim. O2 are not doing this on a whim my friend you agreed to let them do it.

As for the "original specified purpose". It was specified in the T&Cs which you agreed too. NOT illegal.

Sorry but your argument is flawed. If there were such an issue do you not believe lawyers would be jumping all over this like they did with the PPI "scandle"