topic IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless in Discussions & Feedback

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:08:16 GMT

My son phoned 02 today as his iPhone is almost unusable after Apples latest upgrade. Apple have admitted the problem to my son but claim they are working on it.

So he phoned 02 where we pay £35 a month. They said tough the phone is out of warranty and to contact Apple. I can't find the contract anywhere in My 02...not surprising on the worst website in the world.

But this can't be right can it ? The phone is almost unusable and we have no phone and no service yet still have to pay £35 a month. Don't 02 have a responsibility to provide a service to a phone they have supplied that isn't broken but no longer functons properly on their network (or any other to be fair )?

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

perksie — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:28:30 GMT

I'm sure others have had this problem too, why not try a post in the iPhone Technical forum, where you may get some help to fix it?

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:36:39 GMT

Thought about that but there is no fix as Apple have messed up with their latest firmware upgrade..which they admit. The issue is contractural in that )2 are denying any responsibility to the phone. Regardless of what the problem is because "it is out of warranty". To me its not even a warranty issue. in any case section 2.5 of the contract states

"2.5 If you bought your Equipment or SIM Card directly from us and it is defective, not in accordance with any description given to you by us, not reasonably fit for purpose or it develops a fault you will be able to return it for repair and, if appropriate, replacement or refund. Please contact Customer Services for details. You should call us as soon as possible if any of the circumstances above apply to you to ensure that you are able to exercise any rights you have.
Alternatively, if you experience any difficulties with your Equipment within your warranty period, you can contact the manufacturer for replacement or
repair under the manufacturer's warranty service detailed in the User Guide(s). This does not affect your statutory rights."

note the section in bold makes no reference to warranty and the second section only in reference to an alternative method of getting it fixed. Clearly stating that if your phone under a monthly contract develops a fault send it back to 02 "for repair and, if appropriate, replacement or refund"

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

perksie — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:56:42 GMT

If Apple messed up the upgrade then surely your grievance is with them, have you tried your nearest Apple shop for their help?

I know how you must feel but the day I purchase an Apple product is the day you will see pigs flying.

I wish you luck and can only suggest the above and writing to the O2 Complaints Review Service, the address of which is in your terms and conditions, which may not apply because you added new firmware where there was an option for you to refuse this update.

My point being the phone is not faulty, Apple's software evidently is.

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:13:54 GMT

I'm not a an Apple fan either...nor is my son anymore.

However it doesn't matter who caused the problem, in this case Apple, the contractural responsibility is with 02 to rectify it. Or so the contract says. At least for the duration of the current contract.

Which begs another question...why can't I see when my contract ends in My 02 ? Or is it hidden...?

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

jonsie — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:21:46 GMT

At this stage, as perksie says, I would cut O2 out of the equation and go to your nearest Apple store. Make an appointment with one of the resident geniuses at this link :: http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/geniusbar/

If they don't repair it or offer a solution, then you've always got your first option of challenging O2. TBH I don't see how O2 can be held responsible but I'm certainly no expert on the complexities and legalities involved in this issue.

Personally, I think the onus is on Apple to resolve a situation caused by their own software and that is where I would be heading, no matter how near or how far you are away from one of their stores.

Whichever option you choose, I hope you get the situation resolved asap.

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:27:29 GMT

Certainly appreciate the advice guys. Thank you.

Yes, contractural issues are something that I deal with most days. I don't think 02 were actually suggesting they want nothing to do with it...they can't ref contract...but my son now tells me they too suggested trying Apple first....then come come to them which actually makes sense of course. Apple..are well..Apple...but we have a store where I live so I think a rollback of firmware would be in order....

Can anyone tell me where to find my contract end though please ? I can't see a "Tariff Summary" in my 02... ?

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:29:14 GMT

When situations like this have arisen before, the retailer has not been held responsible in law. As far as I know its never been tested with a mobile phone case, but I don't see how it would differ.
So I would echo the comments about contacting Apple.

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:37:12 GMT

But it has. Responsibility for a phone/sim supplied by a carrier transfers to the customer including ownership BUT responsibility for defects, fit for purpise etc etc stays with the carrier. They are not many case studies because its never been a problem of any magnitude. To be fair 02 replaced a phone 3 years ago that was out of "warranty" The point in law is that supplied the phone as part of a contract that lasts 18 months...they don't exclude the phone from support in their contract. In any case the Sale of Goods Act would apply... and that lasts 5 years and definately is the responsibility of the supplier.

But I'll see what Apple Store do and what 02 say when I go back to them and post it here.

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

perksie — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:59:36 GMT

That isn't quite right, in law the liability resides with the retailer for the hardware, but in your case you chose to download an update from a third party, Apple, which caused the problem.

I don't see how O2 could be held responsible for this, other than making a goodwill gesture, which the law doesn't require them to do.

If I buy a new pc and mess it up by installing the wrong kind of software, the manufacturer would not accept responsibility and nor should they.

Apple should put this right as they supplied the software that caused the problem.

Please let us know how you get on at the Apple store.

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

jonsie — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:10:26 GMT

Can anyone tell me where to find my contract end though please ? I can't see a "Tariff Summary" in my 02... ?

See your other thread.

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:37:49 GMT

That isn't quite right, in law the liability resides with the retailer for the hardware, but in your case you chose to download an update from a third party, Apple, which caused the problem.
I don't see how O2 could be held responsible for this, other than making a goodwill gesture, which the law doesn't require them to do.
If I buy a new pc and mess it up by installing the wrong kind of software, the manufacturer would not accept responsibility and nor should they.
Apple should put this right as they supplied the software that caused the problem.
Please let us know how you get on at the Apple store.

Apple store were very helpful but admitted there is a problem with the firmware. And confirmed that Apple were working on it. O2 store also confirmed there was a problem and suggested that if Apple didn't fix it they would be looking at offering an alternative phone. I mentioned warranty and he said that as the phone was supplied as part of an 18 month contract they would repair or replace. Which was pointless here for another 3G phone, it is a 3G ny son tells me. Spoke to 02 support and although they initially waffled on about not in warranty when I read section 2.5 of the contract he concurred. Its clear in that section that 02 are responsible... not at fault, why would they be, but again, the phone was supplied by 02 and forms an integral part of the contract. Unlike a straight purchase of hardware only. It actually covers that in the contract as well. If you have a sim only contract for instance. But once a supplier makes the phone, free or not, a condition of taking the contract there are some basic rights that are given

Point here is that I haven't installed the wrong or illegal software software and the firmware is an integral part of the phone. Which was supplied as part of the contract. Its not a warranty issue. Like above its not 02s fault but is is there responsibility under that contract. Once the contract ends then all bets are off of course. Its only a "grey area" because mobile companies like it that way and most people do not read the contract or understand their rights

Anyway. There is no point in sending phone off for repair as suggested by 02...and we will wait to see when Apple issue there latest update to fix the problem. In the end O2 seemed OK with whatever we wanted to do and I did discuss an alternative phone if all else fails and this wasn't turned down but something for discussion later on. Which is fair enough and I will see what happens. So I'm not unhappy to a great degree and everyone in O2 has been positive if a little slowly and for Apple to admit they have a problem is remarkable. Phone is usable, just, so its not the end of the world.

But thanks again for everyones thoughts and advice... very helpful and much appreciated

Update: Citizens Advice Bureau website is clear and confirms that it is the supplier that is responsible during a contract to ensure, other than damage or misuse, to ensure that a phone is fit for purpose. So be polite but firm like I was and they will be co-operative

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 18:26:59 GMT

I'm afraid you've quoted several different things with out understanding them. I urge you to seek professional advice before continuing.

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 18:58:43 GMT

Not sure where you are coming from saying Apple have admitted the update is faulty, yes a very small minority may be having problems usually from not taking the proper precautions before downloading. As for O2 they are still providing your son the service he is paying for through his sim, he can just pop it in any other phone, and o2 are still providing what he is paying for.

Seems to be a case of you hearing what you want to hear, yes Apple staff may have said that some are having problems but there is by no means a problem with the upgrades since the iOS4, even the 4.0.2 was just a security patch.

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:39:15 GMT

I'm not thick Brendon. Apple were very specific. They know there is a problem with the latest version firmware and said so. O2 know there is a problem....their support staff told me , the manager of my local O2 store told me...and were all very helpful.

Read this before making assumptions like I'm some sort of idiot.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jsp ... 9&tstart=0

This is a major cock up by Apple that affects ALL 3G iPhones.....

Also Google Apple iPhone Firmware problem and see the results you get. If you're interested its a problem with the amount of memory in the 3G handset..128meg against the 512meg in the iPhone 4. The new OS4 loads some new funstionality that resides in memory and in the 3G totally overloads it...who told me that....Apple support. And they hope to release a fix in two weeks (yeah right ?) he even suiggested..shock horror...jailbreaking the phone and reverting back to 3.1.3 But again maybe I was only hearing what I wanted to hear....

As for a mobile contract that should say..."buy a new phone every now and then if the phone we supplied you is no longer fit for purpose" might lose them a few customers I think. O2...and I'm not deaf either... have offered to take the phone back , which is not worth it because its a firmware problem, or look at replacing the phone should Apple fail to resolve the issue. I was happy with that as they didn't once suggest that I go do one and buy another phone. Reading store even offered to upgrade the phone for free...if I took out a new 18 month contract... uh, thank you but not yet.

So, I'm sure you didn't mean any offence but being patronising is not the way to go. I was only tryuing to highlight a problem that exists with 3G iPhones and maybe a suggestion on how to appraoch O2...might work...might not

But no probs...I'll not post again...

IPhone Faulty on Monthly Contract - O2 Hopeless

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 19:39:41 GMT

And did you say that it was a 3G involved, no. Even Apple when they released the iOS4 said it was designed for 3GS onwards. Sorry for your frustration, but basically Apple have given up on the 3G, I do understand your problems but to be fair to me I run an iphone forum and would have advised anyone on a 3G not to download it.

Or if they had would have been telling them how to downgrade it again which Apple will not tell you.