topic Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality in Discussions & Feedback

Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

NFH — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 09:37:38 GMT

Why does O2 treat its prepaid customers as second class customers by deliberately denying them network functionality or by implementing network functionality later for prepaid customers than for postpaid customers?

I don't understand why the availability of network functionality, particularly with no marginal cost to O2, should be affected by whether the customer pays in advance or pays in arrears; the time of payment ought to be a total irrelevance to network functionality. Wifi calling and 4G calling have no marginal cost to O2, whereas eSIM has a potential licensing cost, which is why EE charges £1.50 to its prepaid customers for an eSIM.

One unacceptable consequence is that O2's prepaid customers receive worse coverage and increased battery usage compared to O2's postpaid customers. 4G calling gives coverage for voice calls in the countryside on low frequencies that travel over long distances, and wifi calling allows the receiving (and making) of calls where there's no mobile signal, for example on the Tube, and also causes lower battery usage.

Instead of discriminating between prepaid and postpaid customers, why doesn't O2 much more simply implement network functionality for all customers simultaneously?

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

gmarkj — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 13:22:24 GMT

While your points are valid, it is actually worse than that.
o2 only run WiFi calling on a very small list of handsets, so unless you have one of those it doesn't matter if you are a pre or post pay customer...

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

NFH — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 13:29:33 GMT

@gmarkj wrote:
o2 only run WiFi calling on a very small list of handsets

They support iPhones, which covers around 50% of UK mobile phone users. They also support a number of Android phones, so a majority of O2 customers could use wifi calling, if it weren't for the unreasonable discrimination against those who pay for the service in advance (as opposed to in arrears).

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

gmarkj — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 13:31:42 GMT

Nope, I have never owned one of the phones on the list.
And some of those only work with o2 specific firmware.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

NFH — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 13:34:06 GMT

@gmarkj wrote:
And some of those only work with o2 specific firmware.

That's not the case with iPhones, which account for 50% of UK mobile phone users. There is no carrier-specific firmware for iPhones, only SIM-locking for those who are stupid enough to buy their iPhone from their network instead of directly from Apple.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

gmarkj — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 14:28:36 GMT

True again, but why would i pay more money for a phone that does less?
Vodafone only allows WiFi for monthly customers.
EE same.
Three makes no mention of who can get it.
So it's not just o2 that makes things difficult...

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

NFH — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 16:58:27 GMT

@gmarkj wrote:
True again, but why would i pay more money for a phone that does less?
Vodafone only allows WiFi for monthly customers.
EE same.
So it's not just o2 that makes things difficult...

This is not the forum to debate other networks' deficiencies, only O2's decifiencies. Vodafone and EE have their own forums where this can be raised.

@gmarkj wrote:
Three makes no mention of who can get it.

Would you expect Three to mantion that customers with mobile numbers ending in an even digit can get it? Or ending with an odd digit? Or customers who live in England? Or customers who live in Wales? No, of course not. Three activates wifi calling as a network feature, so it's naturally available to all customers by default. Three doesn't implement unnecessary and complicated discrimination, deliberating preventing some customers from using a network feature. I don't understand why O2 does this. There is no rational explanation.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

Cleoriff — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 17:09:17 GMT

@NFH

Perhaps the forum isn't the best place to discuss this either. This is a customer forum and your complaints should be raised with O2.

You can complain via this route https://www.o2.co.uk/how-to-complain or better still, google the name of the CEO of O2 and you can email him.

From my own experience, I have been with O2 for years initially on PAYG and now on contract.

I am happy with their service. If I wasn't, I would have changed network a long time ago.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

NFH — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 17:14:28 GMT

@Cleoriff wrote:
@NFH
Perhaps the forum isn't the best place to discuss this either. This is a customer forum and your complaints should be raised with O2.

It's not a complaint, but a question, which I will repeat:

Instead of discriminating between prepaid and postpaid customers, why doesn't O2 much more simply implement network functionality for all customers simultaneously?

I think that to bother the Chief Executive with such a question is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Are you suggesting that nobody in this forum, including moderators, would know the answer to this question? There must be a reason for it, which I very much doubt is a secret amongst O2's staff.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

Cleoriff — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 17:48:31 GMT

@NFH

Neither the managers or moderators on here have ANY input to O2's practices and procedures.

They are employees and work within the system.

You have made some valid points but if you are expecting a change by posting on here then I fear you will be disappointed.

The only people who can change anything are the CEO and the board of directors.

If they feel the system and business plan works for O2, I doubt anything will change.

As I said, I have been a customer on PAYG and Contract and am now sim only.

I changed due to the fact PAYG was far too expensive to meet my needs.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

NFH — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 15:02:44 GMT

Now that EE*, Vodafone and Three all support eSIMs for prepaid customers, this leaves O2 as the only one of the four UK physical networks that still doesn't do so.

The timing of Vodafone's and Three's much delayed eSIM launches this month suggests that the immenent iPhone 12 might have no physical SIM slot and might instead have two eSIMs. However, this theory is countered by leaked photos showing a relocated physical SIM slot.

* My EE PAYG account let me order an eSIM for £1.50 earlier this year but no longer shows this option.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

madasaf1sh — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:55:31 GMT

@NFH

Im sorry, the links you point to are only for activation, none of them mention PAYG, and when you dig deeper, none of them support it: (happy to be proved wrong, please provide links)

EE no longer provide esims to Pay as You go users, and the £1.50 charge applies to all PAYG users for a replacement sim card, there used to be a fudge that no longer works.

Three's website doesn't say what they support and they wont support any secondary devices with esim such as apple watch or galaxy watches from day 1.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/09/three-uk-finally-starts-adding-esim-support-to-website.html

Vodafone only support Pay Monthly, no mention anywhere of PAYG :
https://newscentre.vodafone.co.uk/news/esim-support-comes-to-vodafone-uk-smartphones/

The iPhone 12 will come with a sim card slot, unless apple want to kill off a lot of partnerships with mobile networks globally.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

NFH — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:59:49 GMT

@madasaf1sh wrote:

Vodafone only support Pay Monthly, no mention anywhere of PAYG :
https://newscentre.vodafone.co.uk/news/esim-support-comes-to-vodafone-uk-smartphones/

If you log into a Vodafone PAYG account, it allows you to swap to an eSIM, even though it's not explicitly stated anywhere that PAYG accounts are supported.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

NFH — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 17:16:43 GMT

It's almost 8 years since O2 launched TU Go, an app-based predecessor of wifi calling, which was similarly denied to PAYG customers. Does anyone know why, 8 years later, O2 customers still cannot receive calls on their mobile numbers via wifi? What is preventing O2 from allowing its PAYG customers to use wifi calling?

Vodafone launched wifi calling for PAYG customers last month and included PAYG customers within its launch of eSIMs last September. I still don't understand why O2 treats its PAYG customers as second class customers.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

Cleoriff — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 17:49:05 GMT

@Chris_K is the one to answer this @NFH

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

Chris_K — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 20:02:15 GMT

Unfortunately the capability for Wifi Calling on O2 Pay As You Go isn't there at present. We are constantly looking to make improvements on our network and for our customers but this can be difficult with such complex technology, combined with other limitations.

If or when eSIM and/or Wifi Calling capability is enabled on Pay As You Go, we'll of course let customers know.

Re: Prepaid customers treated as 2nd class customers through denied functionality

NFH — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 20:10:24 GMT

@Chris_K wrote:
Unfortunately the capability for Wifi Calling on O2 Pay As You Go isn't there at present.

Thanks @Chris_K, but what is the technical reason behind this? Did O2 mistakenly make an architectural decision many years ago which now prevents billing-agnostic technology (wifi calling, eSIM, 4G calling) from being deployed equally to customers irrespective of how they pay for their service? Otherwise there's no plausible reason as to why prepaid and postpaid customers do not receive the same technological benefits.