topic Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy in Other Products and Services

EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Trimmer — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 07:02:26 GMT

I was shocked, alarmed and angered by a message sent to me by O2 yesterday saying "We've noticed your usage recently has been mostly in our Europe Zone lately." Can anyone suggest here what 'recently' and 'mostly' might mean here? I have been in the UK only since the middle of June and this is now late July; so, recently I have been 'entirely' not in O2's so called Europe Zone.

Nobody at any point from within O2 had informed me about a 'Fair Use Policy' and now I'm being threatened by it and being told that my behaviour is 'unfair'! An absolute disgrace.

I have lived in Spain for more than 9 years so O2 had plenty warning that this customer is likely to be "Using our services in our Europe Zone for more than 63 whole days, in any four month period." Yet, this is the first I've heard of it. Further more I tend not to use my O2 phone when I'm in Spain because I have a Yoigo service and a seperate phone for it there.

Has anybody else here been sent one of these messages from O2?

Really angry about this and about the tone suggesting that I am being unfair and abusive.

Neil

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Bex2 — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 07:24:29 GMT

I have to, living in Cyprus. Have a monthly contract that I pay from a Uk bank act... what’s their problem .. I’m ending my services with O2

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

TallTrees — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 07:38:11 GMT

Hi @Trimmer
Terribly sorry to read your upsetting post. I have full sympathy. Terms and conditions are rarely read thoroughly and not only that, they can be vague. I can never get through any of them.
They are "brought out" when suits.
I usually expect decent behaviour from the company and there is a rule that a company can't write in T & C's rules to deliberately disadvantage their customers.
I expect a more experienced member of our o2 community forum will be able to more specifically comment on the rules re your post.
Good luck TallTrees

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Cleoriff — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 07:45:56 GMT

@Trimmer

You will get one of these messages if O2 think you are 'abusing the system' in the EU about Fair usage

https://www.o2.co.uk/termsandconditions/mobile/o2-consumer-fair-usage-policy

You may only use our services in our Europe Zone (excluding the UK) for periodic travel, like holidays or short breaks. Your data usage may be limited in our Europe Zone (excluding the UK) at a lower level than you data allowance in the UK if you’re a Pay As You Go customer. Once you go over this limit you’ll be charged. For these limits and charges please see www.o2.co.uk/help/pay-as-you-go/roaming-in-europe.
What to avoid: Using our services for the first time outside of the UK, using a large volume of your allowance (be that text, calls or data) in our Europe Zone (excluding the UK), or using our services and travelling within our Europe Zone (excluding the UK) for prolonged periods which don’t follow reasonable consumer holiday and travel patterns and behaviour. If you use our services outside the UK in our Europe Zone for 63 or more days in any four month period and you cannot demonstrate prevailing use and / or presence in the UK this is likely to be deemed to be an unfair use of our services. In such an event we will notify you and then after two weeks charges will apply (the “Surcharges”). For Pay Monthly and Pay As You Go customers the Surcharges are £4.50/GB for data, 3.3p/minute for calls and 1p/text for texts. These charges will cease to apply if you can subsequently demonstrate prevailing use and / or presence in the UK.

I know you say you use your O2 phone rarely, but something must have happened to trigger that warning.

If I lived abroad, I would be using a phone with a local sim, and have a PAYG O2 sim/phone for when I returned to the UK.

You can ring customer services if you disagree with anything I've posted although if you mention you live abroad that will be that I'm afraid.

Hope this helps and welcome to the forum

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Trimmer — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 07:55:58 GMT

@Bex2

I don't think we will be the only ones Bex2

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Trimmer — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 07:55:35 GMT

@Cleoriff

What changed is that I no longer switched off roaming when I landed in Spain .. that was pleasing. I used my UK phone occasionally, that was useful. I will now need to go back to micromanaging my phone use ... that is annoying enough to make me want to find out if another service provider adopts the same approach. I should note that this is an option for O2 under the EU laws, they do not need to make that decision. Moat annoying thing is that it was not mentioned up front ... nowhere in the publicity over 'End of EU Roaming charges' did it say only for holidays and short breaks ... it's only in the small print and actually only at the end of the small print. I live and work in both Spain and Scotland so my only escape from this nonsense is to use another provider. What's ludicrous is that O2 is a Telefonica company - corporate greed knows no bounds.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Cleoriff — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:00:33 GMT

@Trimmer wrote:
I don't think we will be the only ones Bex2

@Trimmer

Please read my post above yours. I have explained why this has happened.

People who live abroad (and I have friends who do) rarely use their UK phones as it works out more expensive in the long run. Roaming in the EU means just that, Roaming not living.

My friends like you, have two phones (one has a dual sim phone) Use the local sim when they are living abroad and the O2 one when they come home.

You can of course use your O2 allowances for free when abroad, though when you exceed the allotted time span for a 'holiday' you will be charged at international rates.

PS, I understand your annoyance, as I had an apartment in Spain for 38 years and visited it between 8-10 times a year....I knew I had to be very careful, although my trips were never longer than 28 days. .

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Trimmer — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 07:58:02 GMT

@TallTrees

The EU directive only states that some providers may apply unfair use charges ... this is an O2 choice. I think it was extremely unfair of them not to mention it until now.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Cleoriff — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:09:38 GMT

@Trimmer wrote:
@TallTrees

The EU directive only states that some providers may apply unfair use charges ... this is an O2 choice. I think it was extremely unfair of them not to mention it until now.

It hasn't been mentioned just now though @Trimmer

It has always been part of the terms and conditions since 'free' EU roaming was introduced back in 2017

I also disagree with anyone who says terms and conditions are rarely read through. They are there to be read. If people fall foul of them... then they have no-one to blame but themselves.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Trimmer — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:10:00 GMT

@Cleoriff

Yes, thank you, I read that, and I had read that before posting.

Actually the roaming thing does not rule out living; it's a different concept when applied to data use than when applied to walking over hills or sitting in your own living room because roaming can apply to an agreement where O2 picks up on another network through agreement when O2 service 'at home' is not avaiable. O2 has decided to apply this EU Roaming only to holidays and short term visits; a choice on their part not an EU directive. I'll be checking to see what providers have not made that choice. If I stay with O2 I'll have to micromanage my EU use ... my Spanish provider YOIGO has not bludgeoned me for spending time in Scotland.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Trimmer — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:13:38 GMT

Innumerable pieces of research have shown that mostly people do not read through Terms & Conditions. That is why tucking them away in small print to the disadvantage of a customer can be challenged.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Cleoriff — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:14:13 GMT

@TallTrees wrote:
Hi @Trimmer
Terribly sorry to read your upsetting post. I have full sympathy. Terms and conditions are rarely read thoroughly and not only that, they can be vague. I can never get through any of them.
They are "brought out" when suits.
I usually expect decent behaviour from the company and there is a rule that a company can't write in T & C's rules to deliberately disadvantage their customers.
I expect a more experienced member of our o2 community forum will be able to more specifically comment on the rules re your post.
Good luck TallTrees

@TallTrees. These terms and conditions about EU roaming have been in place since 2017. As a frequent traveller I can attest to that. They haven't 'just been brought out now'

It's up to the individual to familiarise themselves with them. Particularly when roaming or living abroad.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Bex2 — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:15:45 GMT

I’ve contacted 02 and for even having my phone switched on and connected to a mast here in Cy it will cost me £4.99 a day on top of my contract, I’m trying to now change my details on Uk banks, Paypal etc but they won’t take a non Uk mobile number

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Cleoriff — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:24:11 GMT

@Trimmer wrote:
Innumerable pieces of research have shown that mostly people do not read through Terms & Conditions. That is why tucking them away in small print to the disadvantage of a customer can be challenged.

Sorry @Trimmer that is not an argument that will be won. If any company applies terms and conditions, then they are there to be read. If you read fully the link I provided, I wouldn't say that was 'small print' at all.

Most people on this community know of them...We have many members here who live, work or travel abroad for long periods of time.. I know they are fully aware of the terms and conditions of EU travel.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Trimmer — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:24:52 GMT

@Cleoriff

A Deloitte survey of 2,000 consumers in the U.S found that 91% of people consent to legal terms and services conditions without reading them. Argument won.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

pgn — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:30:50 GMT

I don't think the mobile phone providers have done much to simplify things for people, hiding behind complicated Ts&Cs instead of taking the EU directive in the spirit in which it is intended, ie: permitting people from any EU nation to live and work anywhere in the EU without penalty.

Immaterial for those in the UK soon anyway, as both travel to and (in all likelihood) freedom to "roam like home" will disappear once BoJo and his cronies, aided and abetted by Corbyn's selfish short-sightedness, have finished wrecking the UK for everyone. 🤯

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Cleoriff — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:34:19 GMT

@Trimmer wrote:
@Cleoriff

A Deloitte survey of 2,000 consumers in the U.S found that 91% of people consent to legal terms and services conditions without reading them. Argument won.

Your argument isn't with me though @Trimmer It's with O2. I am a customer like yourself. I don't work for O2.

You asked for advice, I gave it.

I would also point out that as O2 has terms and conditions in place, in a court of law, it wont matter one jot what any survey says about people reading terms and conditions, The company will win NOT you, if you fail to read them.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Cleoriff — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 08:43:19 GMT

Just to add, we have a community guide here, written in 2017 by one of our members @darrengf

It also mentions O2's terms and conditions about Roaming abroad in the EU.

https://community.o2.co.uk/t5/How-to-Guides/EU-Roaming-Changes-from-15th-June-2017-CONTRACT-ONLY-quot/bc-p/1053586#M1050

So, that's at least two pieces of information regarding the fair use policy.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Trimmer — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 09:07:12 GMT

@Cleoriff

Yes indeed, my argument is with O2; I was simply responding to you stating "I also disagree with anyone who says terms and conditions are rarely read through." because the matter of the fact is that in the main people do not read them .. you may not like that or you may rightly think that is foolhardy, but it's the case. Because of that Courts are willing to consider whether or not a consumer has been misled; the company will not always win even if it is in the T&Cs.

I would say I was misled but I also accept I didn't read the T&Cs ... and in this case I doubt I'd win but it is still bloody annoying and I disagree with the principal because it goes against the spirit of the EU.

Anyway, I also want to say that I truly appreciate your input to the discussion and thank you for that.

Re: EU Roaming Fair Use Policy

Cleoriff — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 09:22:53 GMT

No problem at all @Trimmer and I do feel sorry that you find yourself in this situation.

Believe it or not, I have also had my own problems when I failed to read T's&C's (not O2 related) . Since then I have been a bit of a stickler at reading all the small print so I don't get caught out again.

Best of luck in the future and I hope I have helped a little, even though it wasn't what you wanted to hear