topic Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message in Other Devices

Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:23:43 GMT

Just end up with a fat charge because I sent a short sms as group message to around 30 people, my iPhone apparently converted in to mms, 02 charged me, I don't know why 02 allow that, I am going to complain to Ombdusman, this shouldn't happen.

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:29:00 GMT

You can turn MMS off in the iPhone's settings.

Settings, messages,toggle off MMS

Help link -> How can I stop my text messages being sent as a MMS (picture message) on my Smartphone?

http://service.o2.co.uk/IQ/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=Companion,question=ref%28User%29:str%28Mobile%29,CASE=52295

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

viridis — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:30:30 GMT

The ombudsman is there for when all avenues with the network are exhausted, not as a first response.
Contacting the ombudsman straight away will be fruitless.
Instead speak to cs by the methods described at www.O2.Co.UK/contactus

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

MI5 — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:36:12 GMT

Some help here http://community.o2.co.uk/t5/Other-Products-Services/Accidental-MMS-Sending-and-How-to-Avoid-it/td-p/689503

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:37:27 GMT

If you go direct to the Ombudsman you will have your case immediately rejected.

You need to follow the following process.

1. Contact CS and discuss the issue. (DO NOT USE LIVE CHAT) If you don't get the desired answer. .....
2. Send complaint via email to complaintreviewservice@o2.com (note you should not do this until you have completed 1 above). There is a turnaround of up to 28 days.
3. If still you don't get the desired answer o2 complaints will need to give you what is called their "final response". If you don't accept this they will give you the details on how to contact the Ombudsman Service. I know you will probably say you know how to but you must follow this process.

To be honest though the best you can hope for is a goodwill gesture from o2 as it is commonly known that groups of messages do convert to mms.

Wish you luck.

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:41:59 GMT

Nice advice @Anonymous

Mihai32, May I ask if the bill was high ?

Part of the link I added lists "7. Sending to more than 25 people – Try breaking the message up into smaller groups" as one reason why a sms can convert to a MMS.

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:51:53 GMT

It should be noted that some devices used to convert to mms when groups more than 10 were sent. I think it may be handset specific.

Most phones have a setting to alert you when your message converts.

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 21:31:19 GMT

I know this is of no use to you now, but may help for future reference?
One of the Pros of Social Networking is the availability to create groups and be be able to contact everyone within that group.
I also use the Messenger part of FB, as I got caught out sending a SMS instead of an iMessage to someone overseas.

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:07:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Just end up with a fat charge because I sent a shortsms as group message to around 30 people, myiPhone apparently converted in tomms, 02 charged me, I don't know why 02 allow that, I am going to complain toOmbdusman, this shouldn't happen.

O2 Terms and Conditions (available at http://www.o2.co.uk/termsandconditions/mobile/our-latest-pay-monthly-tariff-terms#inclusive-messages-and-message-charges ) contains the following (my emphasis in red):-

3. Text Message Charges

3.1 Subject to these Tariff Terms, inclusive messages on Pay Monthly tariffs can be used for texts (meaning individual SMS) sent in the UK to UK mobiles or tablets that are capable of receiving texts, from your SIM card for private and personal purposes. You may not be able to use your inclusive text allowance if you are using a device or tablet that cannot send or receive standard network text messages, so please check device specifications before buying. Text messages sent to multiple recipients MAY be classed as MMS or use a data allowance depending on device functionality

In my view this wording (in red) is unsatisfactory since it does not explain properly the circumstances in which SMS may be treated as MMS with the associated higher cost. It surely cannot be right that the amount O2 will charge can be determined by some "device functionality" over which presumably neither O2 nor the user has any control?

In any event if O2 are aware if this possibility then they ought to ensure that it is clearly and appropriately drawn to customers' attention in such a way as to allow said customers to decide whether or not to proceed given the higher costs involved for MMS.

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:07:36 GMT

Cracking post @Anonymous

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 13:14:57 GMT

Just as a matter of interest (and I hope I am not straying too far OT) I searched O2 website to see if I could find a definition of SMS especially as to the maximum number of characters a text message may contain. Finding nothing helpful I went on to Live Chat and was informed that that information is " .... not available on our website as it's universally available, it's same with all service provider and with phone manufacturure."

I do not know enough about the technological aspects but I find it hard to believe that there are any hardware or software reasons why a SMS may NOT contain more than 160 characters. If that is true then why have phone manufacturers and/or service providers not used this to make their phones/service more attractive to customers? Is there some sort of cartel or other commercial agreement covering all the players?

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 13:20:01 GMT

@Anonymous again an excellent post.

SMS have always been 160 characters. In the early days many phones "split" longer messages. Indeed I remember sending one that was 1600 characters and my phone split it into texts.

However of late as phones and software have developed there is generally a limit of 480 characters (3 text split) before it becomes what is known as a long text and as such chargeable as an MMS.

I don't think you went off topic at all and was an excellent post.

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Cleoriff — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 13:20:44 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Just as a matter of interest (and I hope I am not straying too far OT) I searched O2 website to see if I could find a definition of SMS especially as to the maximum number of characters a text message may contain. Finding nothing helpful I went on to Live Chat and was informed that that information is " .... not available on our website as it's universally available, it's same with all service provider and with phone manufacturure."
I do not know enough about the technological aspects but I find it hard to believe that there are any hardware or software reasons why a SMS may NOT contain more than 160 characters. If that is true then why have phone manufacturers and/or service providers not used this to make their phones/service more attractive to customers? Is there some sort of cartel or other commercial agreement covering all the players?

Very good point @Anonymous I think personally that the reason they stick to a set number of characters, is so they can charge customers over the odds when they stray from the path...

Then, of course, they make a large profit at our expense?...:smileysad:

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

MI5 — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 13:46:25 GMT

It is actually due to the limitations of SMS/MMS service.
Remember these were introduced back in 1992 and by definition "short message service" only intended for short messages.
EMS (enhanced message service) was introduced to try and overcome this but never took off because by that time people had moved to email as mainstream and now there are many other applications (whatsapp, BBM etc) that can handle "enhanced messages" over a data connection and not relying solely on a 2g network.

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Cleoriff — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 13:52:59 GMT

@MI5 wrote:
It is actually due to the limitations of SMS/MMS service.
Remember these were introduced back in 1992 and by definition "short message service" only intended for short messages.
EMS (enhanced message service) was introduced to try and overcome this but never took off because by that time people had moved to email as mainstream and now there are many other applications (whatsapp, BBM etc) that can handle "enhanced messages" over a data connection and not relying solely on a 2g network.

And thank you for sharing that....I never knew...and now I do....:smileywink:

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 14:08:06 GMT

@MI5 wrote:
It is actually due to the limitations of SMS/MMS service.
Remember these were introduced back in 1992 and by definition "short message service" only intended for short messages.

Makes one wonder what is the difference (from O2's perspective) between allowing unlimited SMS of 160 characters and offering a specified number (say 20,000) texts of double or triple the number of characters?

But with an average monthly text usage around 200 I have to wonder even more why bother asking such questions? Perhaps I should be reviewing my tariff instead!

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 15:32:30 GMT

@Cleoriff wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Just as a matter of interest (and I hope I am not straying too far OT) I searched O2 website to see if I could find a definition of SMS especially as to the maximum number of characters a text message may contain. Finding nothing helpful I went on to Live Chat and was informed that that information is " .... not available on our website as it's universally available, it's same with all service provider and with phone manufacturure."
I do not know enough about the technological aspects but I find it hard to believe that there are any hardware or software reasons why a SMS may NOT contain more than 160 characters. If that is true

Very good point @Anonymous I think personally that the reason they stick to a set number of characters, is so they can charge customers over the odds when they stray from the path...
Then, of course, they make a large profit at our expense?...:smileysad:

A mobile network making a large profit at our expense? Who would ever have thought we would see the day?

But I do remember in the past sensing sms that were between 7 and 10 x 160 characters and I wasn't charged for them. Then in came what I recall were "long text messages" that were charged (by vodafone) at 15p each.

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

jonsie — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 15:48:10 GMT

In the past before smart phones, all sms no matter the length, we're sent as multiple sms of 160 characters,

Ie. A 1000 character text was sent as 7 texts.

6 x 160

1 x 40

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

MI5 — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 15:50:59 GMT

There was a time when the phone would stop you from entering anymore than 160 characters, then it got extended to 480 before text input was prevented and now you can sens the entire volume of war and peace

Re: Normal sms converted in to mms when sent as a group message

Cleoriff — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 15:55:41 GMT

@MI5 wrote:
There was a time when the phone would stop you from entering anymore than 160 characters, then it got extended to 480 before text input was prevented and now you can sens the entire volume of war and peace

At a cost to you of course.....unless you are on Unlimited....?