Paid for a burger but got no bun.

[Anonymous]

So I've been thinking about the lack of 3G/4G in the area where I live - Ely, Cambridgeshire, and trying to figure out what would happen if this were another industry e.g. the fast food business. 

Let's imagine we walk into a burger joint and order a Cheese Burger with Fries, hand over our money wait a few minutes, grab our meal nicely packed into a brown paper bag and off we go to enjoy it under a tree. 

Now imagine for a minute that on opening the burger packaging, we noticed that the burger had all the ingredients - the beef patty, cheese, relish, onion rings all beautifully laid out, but no bun. We could think it an oversight and return to the store and ask for the bun or for a new Cheeseburger with a bun or we could just ignore it and being hungry, just eat away and never return to the burger joint. Might even tell a few friends of the "bunless" burger we had and warn them to look before they walk out the store. 

In a sense, I think most of us would find this unacceptable. The burger joint might have run out of buns for all we know and that's totally ok IF they had let us know that this was the situation and told us before we handed over our cash. They might even have offered us a discount in lieu of the fact there was no bun.

So how does this analogy compare to the lack of 3G/4G in Ely? Glad you asked.

Imagine you are told that Ely has full 3G coverage - indoors and outdoors (or at least in the area where you live) and you make a decision to move to O2 because of that. You sign up a 24 month contract and although you'd really like 4G, the coverage map is very clear that there is no 4G coverage - heartbreaking, but you can live with that. Imagine then that you get home, switch on your phone, plug in your little SIM only to discover that huge swathes of Ely are not in fact covered in 3G and the only "g" you're going to get is the "g" in "gprs" which might as well have been called "u" for "useless"

You pay the same per month as the person who lives in good 3G/4G areas but you don't get a bun. Now, I, the little man, the consumer, is only a tiny tiny dot on the radar of Telefonica / O2 and my £60-odd Quid a month is totally irrelevant to them and means absolutely nothing in the big scheme of things BUT I have a voice and if I refuse to use it and talk about it then I am like the person who will eat a bunless burger and say nothing even though they paid the full price. 

I know Ely is not a big city (pop approx 17000), I accept that, but it's a lot bigger than places like Sunningdale, or Sunninghill in Berkshire which in 2011 had a population of about 4800 - three times smaller but with excellent 4G coverage. It also occurs to me that Ely has a huge tourist influx because of the cathedral and the fact that THE famous Mr Cromwell lived down the road and there is a large interest in visiting this historical location of which Sunningdale and Sunninghill have nothing. 

I would like to request that the Big People at O2 / Telefonica consider us - the small people - and stop selling us bunless burgers. Stop saying we're rolling out "4G across the country" and using that as an excuse to not deliver 3G into areas where you clearly say you have 3G coverage and clearly you don't.

I, as an O2 customer, have the right to expect 3G coverage in the area in which I live - even more so when you say you have full coverage - I have the right to have a bun with my burger. If you cannot provide me with 3G then I would suggest the following:

• Acknowledge the current situation with 3G coverage in Ely
• Discount my / our monthly tarrif to one where there is no data on it
• Adjust your coverage map to reflect the poor coverage you have in Ely (Map attached - apparently updated on 25-9-2014) 

Sincerely

Malaguetas

[Cleoriff]

Extremely articulate and relevant response @Anonymous I admire your determination and hope that you get some satisfaction. At the very least I think you should expect a reduction in your monthly tariff. You are after all paying for a service that you don't get.

I was in a similar situation with my broadband provider. I paid for a quality service and never got the speeds they promised. After many complaints I was happy to accept a drop in my monthly payment.

This lasted a few months till I moved to a provider that could honour their promise.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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Hi PapaDug and thanks for your comment. 

I am quite aware of the line that negates everything I have written above. It is the legalese companies use to protect themselves from legal action. It's the fine print in your insurance contract and the reason you can't get your money back when your holidays are cancelled because of a volcano eruption in Northern Europe. I worked with lawyers - I know the language.

It is however no reason for me to keep silent and take the attitude that because that line happens to negate my argument that I should simply go away and be happy with what I get. As consumers, we have rights and a company cannot simply shrug their shoulders and say "we have this line that says we don't guarantee anything and therefore don't need to do anything about it"

Having said that, at no stage have O2 said that to me - unless you work for O2 that is - I have heard nothing from them nor have any idea if they even read these forums. If you read my previous posts I really have no complaints with O2. I've been with them for years, travelled extensively on their network etc. They have been really good to me as a subscriber. 

On the 1st of September 2000 the licensees for 3G spectrum were given the licenses to start their rollout of 3G around the UK. That's just over 14 years ago. I do NOT find it acceptable that it's taken 14 years to cover Ely in gprs. The fact they have four towers in Ely does not impress me. What's the point of putting four towers if they are virtually useless in the way they distribute signal? Theoretical signal distribution coverage is one thing, reality is quite another. You are completely correct regarding black spots, I too have experienced them everywhere in the world, even in Regents Street, London! The thing is, Ely is one big black spot with occasional white spots yet the map says the complete opposite as you can see for yourself.

I think I might even go into an O2 store and ask one of the O2 salespeople to tell me if there is 3G coverage in my area and ask them to explain how they determine it. If they use the same coverage map that they make available on the Internet then legally they binding themselves to it. Hell, I might even record the conversation (with their permission of course) and then post it on this forum just to make a point. 

Finally, and just to be clear, my principle objection in all of this is not even to the fact that 3G coverage in Ely is miserable (it really is), it's that their map indicates they have good coverage indoors and outdoors and based on this tool (which is the only tool they make available to the public to check coverage), I made a decision to go with O2. I was duped. I want them to change the map or fix the coverage.

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As I asked previously, have you called Customer Services and voiced your concern to O2 or followed the complaints procedure rather than just post on the Community? There are a handful of O2 employees that post on the Community and they are here mostly to moderate.

You may not want to complain but its obviously bothering you enough for you to type the length of posts that you have on here. Would it not make more sense to use that energy sensibly and contact O2 directly where you could make a difference to the signal strength in Ely rather than post on here?

If you read my second post again, I said that all 4 operators have masts in almost the same place in Ely, not that O2 have 4 masts. I then asked if you had asked your neighbour what network they are on and what their signal is like. This will give you a better indication as to wether the problem lies with the O2 Signal, the O2 Mast or if there is a general problem with all of the cellular networks in your area.You can then inform Customer Services of your findings, and even get neighbours who are also on O2 to complain at the same time if they are having the same problem.

Then again, you could just keep complaining on here...that'll sort it out for you...

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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Hi PapaDug and thanks for your comment. 

I am quite aware of the line that negates everything I have written above. It is the legalese companies use to protect themselves from legal action. It's the fine print in your insurance contract and the reason you can't get your money back when your holidays are cancelled because of a volcano eruption in Northern Europe. I worked with lawyers - I know the language.

It is however no reason for me to keep silent and take the attitude that because that line happens to negate my argument that I should simply go away and be happy with what I get. As consumers, we have rights and a company cannot simply shrug their shoulders and say "we have this line that says we don't guarantee anything and therefore don't need to do anything about it"

Having said that, at no stage have O2 said that to me - unless you work for O2 that is - I have heard nothing from them nor have any idea if they even read these forums. If you read my previous posts I really have no complaints with O2. I've been with them for years, travelled extensively on their network etc. They have been really good to me as a subscriber. 

On the 1st of September 2000 the licensees for 3G spectrum were given the licenses to start their rollout of 3G around the UK. That's just over 14 years ago. I do NOT find it acceptable that it's taken 14 years to cover Ely in gprs. The fact they have four towers in Ely does not impress me. What's the point of putting four towers if they are virtually useless in the way they distribute signal? Theoretical signal distribution coverage is one thing, reality is quite another. You are completely correct regarding black spots, I too have experienced them everywhere in the world, even in Regents Street, London! The thing is, Ely is one big black spot with occasional white spots yet the map says the complete opposite as you can see for yourself.

I think I might even go into an O2 store and ask one of the O2 salespeople to tell me if there is 3G coverage in my area and ask them to explain how they determine it. If they use the same coverage map that they make available on the Internet then legally they binding themselves to it. Hell, I might even record the conversation (with their permission of course) and then post it on this forum just to make a point. 

Finally, and just to be clear, my principle objection in all of this is not even to the fact that 3G coverage in Ely is miserable (it really is), it's that their map indicates they have good coverage indoors and outdoors and based on this tool (which is the only tool they make available to the public to check coverage), I made a decision to go with O2. I was duped. I want them to change the map or fix the coverage.

---

As I asked previously, have you called Customer Services and voiced your concern to O2 or followed the complaints procedure rather than just post on the Community? There are a handful of O2 employees that post on the Community and they are here mostly to moderate.

You may not want to complain but its obviously bothering you enough for you to type the length of posts that you have on here. Would it not make more sense to use that energy sensibly and contact O2 directly where you could make a difference to the signal strength in Ely rather than post on here?

If you read my second post again, I said that all 4 operators have masts in almost the same place in Ely, not that O2 have 4 masts. I then asked if you had asked your neighbour what network they are on and what their signal is like. This will give you a better indication as to wether the problem lies with the O2 Signal, the O2 Mast or if there is a general problem with all of the cellular networks in your area.You can then inform Customer Services of your findings, and even get neighbours who are also on O2 to complain at the same time if they are having the same problem.

Then again, you could just keep complaining on here...that'll sort it out for you...

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To answer your question, no, I haven't called customer services - yet. If I have to chose between hanging on the end of a phone during working hours or posting to a forum I will always choose the latter. This way I reach a larger audience, get advice from people like you and can make a judgement call on whether I'm spitting into the wind and should give up or keep on knocking until things change. It allows me to make an informed decision.

I'm sorry if my long ramblings and posting to this O2 forum have irked you. It's obvious it must be bothering you somewhat as you've now mentioned it a few times. I prefer to think clearly about what I want to say rather than just saying "O2 Sucks" even though I will admit my comments are nowhere as short but probably a lot sweeter. 

I'm also sorry for misreading your point about all four operator masts. Your post does indeed say all four operators have masts in almost the same places. My bad. 

I have asked my neighbout about 3G coverage in Ely and he didn't seem bothered by it but did say he was not on O2. I could do a little survey but then again, I hardly have time during working hours and I'd prefer not to spend weekends knocking on neighbours doors to ask about their 3G coverage - especially since I'm still unpacking boxes from my recent move. 

Once again, thanks for your input. I have discovered - through your link -  that all the O2 masts in Ely bar one, are running at almost 80% of their licensed transmitting capacity. However, the closest mast to me is running at approximately 20% which begs the question why? Perhaps if it's boosted to 80% I will be a happy man again.

Finally your last comment kind of irritates me. I'm the kind of guy that when I go to a restaurant and order something, I expects to get what I ordered and if I don't, I call the waiter or the manager over and tell them why I'm not happy. If I tell them, then maybe they can improve and do it better next time. Most people I know would never complain, just take it and never come back. I'm not like that and for that reason I will keep publishing my posts to this forum and hopefully more people will read them, comment, disregard or ignore them. I value the comments that people make and by the amout of people who have read the articles it can't be all bad. 

[Cleoriff]

Malagueta said

Most people I know would never complain, just take it and never come back. I'm not like that and for that reason I will keep publishing my posts to this forum and hopefully more people will read them, comment, disregard or ignore them. I value the comments that people make and by the amount of people who have read the articles it can't be all bad. 

@AnonymousA fair point. if people don't want to read your posts that's up to them. However there are many of us that enjoy them ....so please feel free to carry on...they are a joy to read.

Not sure we are helping at all with your signal issues...but if 'venting' on here makes you feel better then that is all to the good....

On a personal note I have found all of your posts extremely amusing .....often making me laugh out loud..so in turn you are doing many of us a service

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Finally your last comment kind of irritates me. I'm the kind of guy that when I go to a restaurant and order something, I expects to get what I ordered and if I don't, I call the waiter or the manager over and tell them why I'm not happy. If I tell them, then maybe they can improve and do it better next time. Most people I know would never complain, just take it and never come back. I'm not like that and for that reason I will keep publishing my posts to this forum and hopefully more people will read them, comment, disregard or ignore them. I value the comments that people make and by the amout of people who have read the articles it can't be all bad.  

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If you are that kind of guy then why are you doing the opposite of what you would do in a restaurant? Essentially what you are doing is talking to other customers in the hope that a manager or waiter just happens to over hear what you're saying, rather than telling them directly that you're not happy.

To use your analogy, if you want to speak to the waiter or the manager in this instance, you need to complain to O2 directly via Customer Services or the complaints route and explain why you're not happy. Why not try using social media like Facebook or Twitter to contact O2 directly which will also ensure other customers see your complaint if that the direction you are wanting to take?

Me, I'm the kind of guy who would rather take action if I wasn't getting the service I expected rather than just moan about it to other customers.

[Anonymous]

Sigh...

[jonsie]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Sigh...

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Don't worry, most of us are rivetted by your daily blog....:smileywink:

[MI5]

Just one word tonight 😞

[jonsie]

Says much though!:smileytongue:

[Beenherebefore]

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@jonsie wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Sigh...

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Don't worry, most of us are rivetted by your daily blog....:smileywink:

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And most have a sense of humour